Kriegsmarine Unknown Naval Hat and Dagger in 2006

[Vic Diehl]

Hope fully some of you masters can identify this orgainzation. Here is a pic of the visor cap and dagger pommel with the unknown insignia.

[Vic Diehl]

Dagger pommel

[Guest Rick Research]

Either Deutsches Seeamt (maritime court) or Deutsche Seewarte (marine observatory)--

both usually detached naval officers.

With the small cap top and celluloid collar, I presume before the Great War... got a name on the photo?

Might get more response quicker in the Imperial section.

[Vic Diehl]

Rick:

This has been a stumper world wide so far---thanks for this input.

No name on the picture other than the address of the studio Reeperbahn 9, Saint Pauli, Hamburg

When you say Seeamt--What kind of official would we be talking about--this guy looks like a kid.

SeeWarte---is this the same a harbor pilot. One researcher in Germany is thinking this guy was a regional harbor pilot in the Hamburg area.

The dagger has a celluloid grip as opposed to ivory with is typical pre-WW I. Here is the blade.

[Guest Rick Research]

What's the rest of the uniform look like? ("Rank" badges etc)....

Seeamt would be LAW courts with jurisdiction over sea shipping issues.

Seewarte were primarily concerned with WEATHER, though occasionally (at least into the 1920s) sent off actual "star charting" sea expeditions for MAPPING.

The cloned Imperial navy look and silver "Beamten" colors here (which is surely what the cap insignia and frock coat buttons would have been) could be either, but I'm fairly certain will turn out to be one or the other obscure organizations.

Add one more possibility-- the

Deutsche Seemannsschule in Hamburg, which fits for location. I'm not sure if that was THE "official" Merchant Marine Academy or a private school.

[Vic Diehl]

Uniform

[Guest Rick Research]

You were right-- he IS a kid!

Definitely a Midshipman type, which lets out BOTH the Seeamt and the Seewarte and leaves me with my fallback, the

Deutsche Seemannsschule.

I've never had ANY luck Googlesearching, but would advise seeing what is to be found on them if they are still around.

I don't have a list of individual shipping lines in the Imperial period (and this is from then), but of the 199 in existence under the Third Reich (which I do have listed) the ONLY ones with initials "D S" were

Deutsche Seemannsschule in Hamburg,

and

Deutsche Schulschiffsverein A.G. in Bremen

as appropriate.

Can you zoom in on the buttons and see if there is anything lettered on them visible?

[Vic Diehl]

Rick, I really thank you for all of this important data. You are way ahead of the field on this one!

Button--

[Vic Diehl]

Rick--Appears to be a fouled anchor as one would expect

[Guest Rick Research]

I was hoping for more complete initials, oh well. North German Lloyd and the Hamburg America Line had their initials (NDL and HAPAG) on buttons and so on-- but then so did their cap badges. Even the Imperial Yacht Club in Kiel was emblazoned with initials on the buttons of their Boat Club monkey jacket dress.

[Vic Diehl]

Rick,

So are you thinking Deutsche Seemannsschule? That would make this a dagger worn by students being trained to be civilian sea captains, or by their instructors? From what I read this organization has been in existence since the mid 1800's and the first dagger appears in 2006 ? Strange occurance. Even stranger the dagger and the picture did not come together. They came from two different sources, but only 3 days apart!

Vic

[Guest Rick Research]

"...and the first dagger appears in 2006."

Some people have all the luck!!!

[Vic Diehl]

Looks like a lot of students

[Vic Diehl]

Looks like a lot of students

Forgot to add this card I think is 1961 not 1901 as I would prefer

Edited June 26, 2006 by Vic Diehl