Avitas Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Hello all, I have a few USA items from Vietnam and WW2 that are not medals that I will post on this thread. I still have to get pics of my ww2 goggle set (look just like modern dirt bike goggles!) with original box and 4 lenses I believe that I have packed up somewhere I will get those pics soon! First up to show is my Vietnam MP jacket with undercoat I got off of the vet 2 years ago. I have to get his name though, as I know his wife throught he flea market. He served as an MP in Vietnam and collected a few things over there. This is a very nice coat and has some cool 4-leaf clover insignias on the shoulders that I would like identified. Here is the jacket,Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avitas Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 Here is a close-up of the insignias, any ideas on the ID of the clover?THanks,Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastie Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 The patch is the US Fouth Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Since you have contact with the previous owner, it would be useful to get more information from him about when and where it was worn. As noted previously, the shoulder patch is 4th Army, which I don't think was ever in Viet-Nam. More importantly, in 30 years in the US Army, starting 1971, I have never seen shoulder patches worn on this type of coat. Perhaps it was worn in a garrison environment in the US prior to that, but I have never seen it. Doesn't mean it is not real, but I would certainly ask questions. Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Since you have contact with the previous owner, it would be useful to get more information from him about when and where it was worn. As noted previously, the shoulder patch is 4th Army, which I don't think was ever in Viet-Nam. More importantly, in 30 years in the US Army, starting 1971, I have never seen shoulder patches worn on this type of coat. Perhaps it was worn in a garrison environment in the US prior to that, but I have never seen it. Doesn't mean it is not real, but I would certainly ask questions. DocFourth U.S. Army has never deployed overseas. It was a regional command, responsible primarily for training and recruiting, and controlling reserve units, until eliminated in 1990-91. An MP on a post like Fort Sheridan under 4th Army would have worn that patch, although like Doc I don't recall ever seeing it worn this way. Of course, I was born in 1967 so I don't really know 1960s uniform conventions very well.For what it's worth, a basic history: 1st, 2nd and 3rd Armies were formed and fought in World War One. After the war, the country was divided into several army and corps areas, which by the onset of World War Two numbered four armies (1-4) and I believe nine corps (I-IX). 1st Army was the northeastern US, 2nd Army the southeast, 3rd the southwest and midwest and 4th the western US. 5th Army was formed for operations in North Africa and then Italy. 6th Army was formed in the South West Pacific Area. 7th was then formed before the invasion of Sicily (and commanded by Patton there). 8th Army was then formed in the Pacific as the forces under MacArthur grew in number. 1st Army was then relocated to England to control forces for the invasion of France, with 2nd Army taking over its role in the US. 3rd Army was also then moved to England, with 4th Army taking over its role in the US. As more forces were added in Northern Europe, 9th Army was formed there. 10th Army was next in the Pacific, and was the command for the invasion of Okinawa. For some reason, 11 through 13 were skipped, and 14th Army was part of the phantom FUSAG deception plan to convince the Germans that the Allies would invade at Calais rather than Normandy. 15th Army was formed at the end of 1944 to control occupation forces in Germany.After the war, the US was divided into 6 army areas (1-6), 7th Army became responsible for Europe, and 8th Army became occupation forces in the Pacific, and then became mainly responsible for to Korea during the Korean War. In Vietnam, the army/corps structure wasn't designated as such. The army-level command was United States Army, Vietnam, and the corps-level commands were I Field Force and II Field Force. A third corps-level command was added in 1968, which, oddly, was designated a corps - XXIV Corps.Until 1990 or so, there were again 8 numbered armies. 1, 2, 4, 5 and 6 were regional commands. 3rd Army also was a regional command, but was inactivated in 1974. It was reactivated in 1982 as the Army component of what became Central Command, responsible for the Middle East. 7th Army is US Army Europe, and 8th Army is the Army component of US Forces Korea. As noted, 4th Army was inactivated in 1991 or so. 6th Army and 2nd Army followed around 1995. So today, pending any further changes, there are 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 8th Armies. MNF-Iraq is also an army-level command, but not designated as a numbered army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slava1stclass Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 (edited) So today, pending any further changes, there are 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 8th Armies. MNF-Iraq is also an army-level command, but not designated as a numbered army.To all: End state Army/Corps unit designations may be found on the following link: http://www.army.mil/modularforces/map2.htm Scroll over each patch for details. 1st Army no longer exists per se although its former patch lives on. 6th Army is resurrected. The Army designation for USARPAC is yet to be determined although 8th Army would be a logical choice.Regards,slava1stclass Edited July 7, 2006 by slava1stclass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avitas Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hmmm, looks like I will have to do some more digging of info from the person I got this from. Hopefully she can find out some exact details for me. Great explanation of the US armies and their history, very helpful and informative! Thanks and I will be back with more info (hopefully!)Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avitas Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Hello again, no info on the Vietnam jacket yet, but I finally got some pictures of a few items I have had for a while. First up is the aforementioned US Polaroid-made M-1944 N2 goggle set. This ww2 set is absolutely complete with the three lenses (red, clear, tinted), two cleaning cloths, box, instructions and original lens packing paper. I used to ride dirt bikes (until I moved down south) so needless to say I love these goggles! The style hasn;t really changed much. If anyone has anymore information on this item (when and where used? what type of units? Motorcycle units?) please leave some, and feel free to leave any comments on any of the items posted.Cheers,Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avitas Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Some closer pics of the lenses and goggles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avitas Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Last for this item, a close up of the box, very nice little set!Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avitas Posted August 15, 2006 Author Share Posted August 15, 2006 Next up we have my Korean War issue US combat helmet. It was owned by a soldier by the name of "Mills". THis has its original light wood lining and is in great shape. My only question is if the insignia on the front of the helmet is original or if it was addded later. It seems kind of sloppy, but I may be wrong. If anyone has info on this particular helmet or comments on any of the other items on this thread please feel free to leave them.The markings on the inside of the helmet liner look like this: 6 1 D C 1 A CAPAC A 5 C 4 CMCand the name is marked "177 Mills".Any deciphering of these codes and abbreviations is greatly welcomed. I think it is from 1954 based on the numbers.Cheers and thanks again,Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avitas Posted August 15, 2006 Author Share Posted August 15, 2006 It appears when I posted this the layout of the markings got changed in the word processor, but the "CAPAC" is in the shape of an even sided cross made up of the letters (CAPAC) spelled horizontally and vertically, forming the cross. Here is another pic of the close-up of the name and texture of inner liner.Cheers,Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avitas Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 Hello again,I have this nice ww2 era US Navy cap with a name and serial number on it that I would like to post next. Also, Any comments on the previously shown goggles or helmet are welcome as well. I don't know much about these caps so any background info is great. The name of the sailor is W.M. Roberts and his number on the inside of the cap is 483 71 92. He wrote his name twice (guess he was worried about theft!) on the inside ring. Other than that, it appears to be a standard US Navy cap from ww2. Maybe someone can determine where and when Mr. W.M. Roberts served if the resources are available. It is always nice to get the full story in my view, I just can't live without more info on the item Cheers,Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avitas Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 Here is the pic of the pen written name and serial number. Thanks for any help!Cheers,Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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