EK 1914 TR 1914 Grand Cross

[Gordon Williamson]

Alongside the standard 1914 EK2 and Prinzen 1914 EK2.

Geissler shows one of these GKs, described as a Museum piece made by Godet.

[Gordon Williamson]

Close up

[Gordon Williamson]

And reverse. Core is iron, frame is 800 silver. As well as the 800 mark there are two other small hallmarks on the upper arm edge.

[Jim P]

It sure doesn't exibit the quality one would expect of a Grand Cross made by Godet,even if it is a museum copy.

Jim

[Gordon Williamson]

I agree. I have no idea on what evidence Geissler bases his claim that these were made by Godet (1870 GKs also exist from the same tooling).

The full range of 1870s was also made during the TR and could only have been made as museum copies rather than replacements, and some of those TR 1870s I have seen have been inferior in quality seen alongside original period pieces.

[Biro]

A nice representative example of an otherwise impossible to obtain order Gordon. More-so because many of the T/R examples we see do NOT have the eyelet sunken into the frame (period originals from WW1 do). The display GK offered by Herman Historica in their last auction (listed as a 1920's 'Godet') whilst creditable, does not have this feature.

Have you deciphered the hallmarks?

It sure doesn't exibit the quality one would expect of a Grand Cross made by Godet,even if it is a museum copy.

Jim

Worth considering that even Wagners period examples of this order (like Mackensen's below) are not exactly works of art!!

Marshall

[coastie]

I know the loop isn't right but the flat wide beading suggests that it's a Souval style frame. I woud be curious of the measurements of the frame.

[Gordon Williamson]

I know the loop isn't right but the flat wide beading suggests that it's a Souval style frame. I woud be curious of the measurements of the frame.

Happy to say thats at least one thing I can be 100% sure of - its not Souval. Whoever made these also made the 1939 GK, I have this also. Having had the chance to compare it side by side with a postwar Souval GK, its definitely not from the same tooling.

Here is the 1914 alongside the 1939, with apologies for bringing swastika-thingies to the Imperial area.

[Gordon Williamson]

Here is the 1939 at right alongside the Souval at left.

[Gordon Williamson]

The eye on the Souval is a little larger but at first glance very similar - but the beaded edging is different. Souval at left again.

[Gordon Williamson]

The dates - Souval at left. The horizontal top bar to the "3" on the souval is much thinner, and the angled parts to the top of the numeral "1" are flat. On the other, the top bar to the "3" is thicker, and the tops to the "1" are concaved. Also visible here the point at which the beading from the arms meet has a sharply defined ridge but is flat on the Souval.

On the obverse, the "9" numerals are fatter than Souvals, and the "1"s have a longer concaved angled edge as against the shorter flat edge of the Souval.

The Souval numeral is also flatter, like the Swastika, and weaker. Like the Souval Knight's Cross, the swastika is well below the beaded edge, but on the other is flush with the beaded edge.

Very similar but more than enough differences in core and frame to be certain its not Souval.

The 1914 was made by the same tooling as the 1939. Not any closer to knowing who made them, but definitely not Souval.