Dave Wilkinson

I would date to pre. 1970's. The full name is "British Overseas Airways Corporation"

Dave.

British Airways cap badge.

Dave.

"No Constables wore Crowns". You obviously don't know a great deal about the historical aspects of police uniform then do you?

1 hour ago, NormanW said:

I'm trying to identify the police force that the officer in the centre of the photo was a member of.  Despite an unusual fluted spike finial on the helmet and what looks like a quartrefoil surmounted by an inverted chevron on the epaulette, I am struggling.

The picture is from a damaged postcard c.1915-1918 with a soldier on either side.  The cap badge on the right is indistinguishable, but the one on the left looks unusual.  Can I ask please if anyone can identify the regiment the soldier on the left was from?  It might help to narrow down the area where the police officer was from.  Thanks for reading.

The badges on this photo appear to have been deliberately obliterated so as to ensure that they cannot be identified. There is no definition or detail on the police helmet badge. The badge on the policeman's shoulder is a King's Crown. However, some effort has been expended to ensure that (for whatever reason) it can't be clearly identified as such. I wonder why?

Again, I think that the use of the term WPC depended on the force. In Liverpool City, Liverpool & Bootle and Merseyside (prior to 1975), women were shown as Con. 118"WP" Smith,  Sgt. 10"WP" Smith., Insp. Smith "WP"., C/Insp. Smith "WP" and so on. After 1975, and for many years the letter "W" prefixed the rank. I'd guess that even that has been dropped now. During my time it was often important to be able to identify women officers on paper etc., as obviously you very often needed to ensure that a woman officer was present (or deliberately absent) on certain occasions for operational reasons.

Dave.  

As I understand it "Detective Sergeant" is not,  a rank as such. The rank is "Sergeant" and the prefix Detective is a mere designation. Can't understand why PS is used on this particular medal, as you suggest, "Sergt" is usually the norm.

In several forces the prefix "Police" in respect of ranks is regarded as being a total "non, no". PSNI (and the old RUC) is one such force and another is Merseyside Police where the title Constable is used and not prefixed by "Police". The term PS is also very much a "no, no" in Merseyside (and the PSNI). The term "PS" is, in effect, an afterthought on a piece of written correspondence, a fact of which I was forcefully remined of when I had the temerity to refer to a Sergeant as such on my return from District Training Centre many years ago.

Finally, you will never find the term "Police Constable" mentioned in any UK Act of Parliament. You will find "Constable", but it is never proceeded with the word "Police".

Dave. 

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you refer to the security services. The term security services usually mean MI5 or MI6. I'm fairly confident that they would have no connection with the prison service. In many (but not all) British Colonies, the Prison Service often came under the management of the Commissioner/Chief of Police. Insofar as Cyprus is concerned I can confirm that the police and the prison service each had their own distinctive cap and collar badges. That was also the case in Palestine, where I can confirm that the Commissioner of Police did command both organisations. In all probability that was also the case in Cyprus.

Dave. 

It is a Warrington Borough Police lapel/epaulette badge.

Dave.

Forgive my asking but what is "SEROD"?

I've never seen a Royal Mint produced medal with rounded edges, or with such "naff" engraving. Looks like a child has done it. In addition,  I'm fairly certain that the title "Inspector of Police" would not be used on an SC medal. If the medal itself is genuine, which is a possibility, its been seriously interfered with. The edge and rim looks as if its spent some time on a grinding wheel.

Dave.

In my opinion, total rubbish (the medal, that is).

Dave.

3 hours ago, bigjarofwasps said:

Think the Asp is a PSU issue item?  I would have thought response bobbies would have the Casco? 

You have to bear in mind that there is no National policy in respect of what type of weapon is carried. An "Asp" was the only type of baton issued in my last force. It may be a PSU item in your force but not in others. Each Chief Constable is at liberty to authorise whatever type he considers appropriate.

Dave. 

I've no doubt a Metpol. officer will correct me, but I think they have a choice of long straight baton, metal "Asp" baton or a PR24. The traditional wooden truncheon was discontinued at various points in time depending on the force. Each force makes its own decision with regard to the weapon used.

Dave. 

Hi Lawrence,

Newport had 260 men when it amalgamated in 1967. So, I suspect they would probably have had half that number during the period the badges were worn. The wreath badge was used on both helmet & cap. The smaller wreath is an epaulette badge. Welsh police badges usually command some good interest. I don't think you will have any difficulty in finding a new owner.

Hope you and the family are well.

Dave.

Hi Brian,

Yes, you are so right!

Dave.

I'm puzzled! This is a piece of military equipment and has nothing whatsoever to do with policing - let alone British policing. Incidentally, what is a "perp"? Oh, do you mean an offender?

Dave. 

Not unusual. As others have said, a military trench stick. 1stWW. In the late 1950's I recall my paternal Grandmother having one of these. She kept it in the small cupboard (containing the electricity meter) adjacent to he front door of her large Victorian house in the Wavertree area of Liverpool. Haven't a clue what happened to it. 

Dave.

The badge is not a UK municipal Coat of Arms, or part of a municipal Coat of Arms that I recognise. It could be a design used on a local town "seal" or similar. To reiterate my earlier theory, I believe he is a civilian bandmaster of some sort.

Dave. 

I don't think its a military guy. My theory is that he is a bandmaster of a Town Band or similar.

Dave.

I was an English bobby for thirty-five years and served in four different police forces. During my service I saw no evidence of "weighted" truncheons being used, officially or otherwise. The first part of my service was in a very turbulent and often violent city. That said, truncheons were seldom drawn let alone used. So, (like it or not) I support what delibob says. I'm perhaps fortunate that I don't live in Canada!

Dave.

17 minutes ago, bigjarofwasps said:

47 is pretty small I guess, but HUGE compared to Merionethshire Constabulary, which had a mighty 35 (all ranks) ? 

I think the smallest (in Wales) was Carmarthen Borough Police with 17 men. They amalgamated with their County in 1944. For the greater part of their existence they had only 12 men and were known as the "Carmarthen Shilling" (12 Coppers).

Dave.

You have to remember that in 1951, when the PLS&GC medal was introduced, all those who had 22 years service with unblemished conduct would have been in the frame to get the medal. That would have included all the CC's and their (very few) non-Home Office equals. Since then there would have been further awards. However, those small non-HO forces which existed in Wales have long since disappeared, well before Welsh naming became the norm. I would think that the number of Welsh rank named medals would be (by this time) many hundreds. However, I take your point. As an aside, isn't it interesting that the rank abbreviations  on the PLS&GC medal are never shown as "PC", "PS" or "PI" ?    

I doubt it. The rarest examples of PLS&GC medals will be those showing Chief Officer (Ch.Offr..) rank. A number of the non-Home Office forces were headed by a Chief Officer (as opposed to Chief Constable). The number of medals issued bearing that rank would be very few. Possibly no more than a dozen or so. 

Dave.

At the time of amalgamation on 31st March 1947 they had 45 men.

Dave.

Unfortunately, the use of the Royal Crown, has in recent years, been portrayed increasingly on "fashion" items and its use in that respect is not unusual.

Dave.