Jonathan Hopkins

I have the first edition of the book. I think it will be a good introduction to the subject of British swords. If you continue to collect then Swords of the British Army (1997 revised edition) by Brian Robson is a must!

That is very interesting. Please do send a request to ArmsResearch.co.uk and share your findings! Congratulations on a nice sword! Out of curiosity, what book did you order?

Is there any other etching on the blade that might say "Royal Artillery", or any other symbols? Since it is a Wilkinson you can send an enquiry to ArmsResearch.co.uk, and for a small fee (~15 GBP) you can find out if there is an entry in the proof book for your serial number. Hopefully there will be an entry and you can learn the name of the original owner. Based on the period of manufacture I would guess that your sword is for a Royal Artillery officer, and based on the blade length probably Royal Horse Artillery.

It is an officer's sword, but not for infantry. It is hard to tell without measurements or photos of the blade decoration, but it appears to be a Pattern 1821 Royal Artillery Officer's Sword (or maybe Army Service Corps). Can you provide more photos of the blade decoration including any maker/retailer information? If it is a Wilkinson sword then the serial number is tied to an entry in the Wilkinson Proof Ledger which may reveal information about the original owner. Also, if this is a Wilkinson the serial number would date the sword to the period 1914-17.

Do you still have this sword?

Indeed! Hence, http://gmic.co.uk/in...ndpost&p=341503 and http://gmic.co.uk/in...ndpost&p=341576 ;)

During WWI some units were still equipped with the P1899, so the seller's story is plausible. Somewhere I have a period photo of a cavalry regiment with both P1899 and P1908 swords on display. If I can find it I will post it or message you. It is a very nice sword, indeed. It is the final trooper's patten to incorporate Reeve's patent solid hilt--a design element that began with the Pattern 1853 cavalry trooper's sword. Thank you for posting it! Jonathan

Yes, at 23 mm your sword is a dress sword, and is often called a picquet or levee sword. A nice sword, and well done finding more information on the unit. Do you have any more British swords? Jonathan

How wide is the blade where it enters the guard?

Googling "Hastings volunteer artillery" using a Google book search brings up several results that may be of interest. The only problem with Google Books (books.google.com) is that some countries don't have the same access that we have in the States. Let me know if you have trouble finding results and I will see what I can do to help. I can not find a reference for Farra, but I would guess that your sword dates 1860-80. Farra is probably a military tailor or some other sort of retailer, rather than a maker. Jonathan

Mervyn, I think the cypher is slightly larger due to the "I" for "Imperator", which is found on Indian Army swords. If it was for an officer in a British regiment the cypher would simply be "GR". The overall look of the sword is much more workman-like than a comparable Wilkinson. The details on the guard are a bit different (less refined) and the blade is beefier. It is a bit heavier than other P1897s I have handled, and it is very much a fighting sword (although possibly never worn in battle). Here are a few comparison shots with other P1897s: P1897 by Ranken for Lt. FC Head, c.1911-18: P1897 by Hobson for Lt. EGS Truell, c.1898: P1897 by Wilkinson for Lt. WH Wilkin, C.1898: And here is a comparison of the differences between the P1895 and P1897 hilts. Note that in addition to the turned-down edge, the pierce work on P1897s is much smaller than on P1895s.

Here is a one, but this time a P1897 infantry officer's sword by Ranken & Co., with GRI cypher (indicating that it belonged to an officer of the Indian Army), and complete with its original sword bag bearing the initials of it original owner--F.C. Head of the 6th Jat Light Infantry (served in Mesopotamia in the attempt to relieve Townshend at Kut).

Avsar, You have been tremendously helpful. I believe it is Lt.-Col. Henry Marwood of the North Staffordshire Regiment. According to the 1899 Hart's List: I would not have been able to make this educated guess without your kind assistance! Warm Regards, Jonathan

Avsar, Thank you for your detailed reply. The photos are excellent and the medals or really quite stunning. My question was prompted by some research I am conducting. I am trying to identify a British officer based on his medals as depicted in a photo. The officer is wearing an Order of Medjidie, and I was not able to determine which Class. Do you mind giving me your opinion? I am guessing that it is not 3rd Class since his is worn on his breast rather than his neck. Is that correct? Thank you, Jonathan

How can one distinguish between the various Classes of the Order of Medjidie awarded to British officers for their service during the Sudan campaign of the late 1890s? What is the significance of the round bit on the medal's ribbon? I am especially interested in the differences between 3rd and 4th Class. Thank you, Jonathan

Mervyn, Thank you for your reply. Not an insult at all! I am a bit of an Anglophile, I suppose. The display was for educational purposes only. The fellow seemed to know his stuff (he mentioned that he participates the the RorkesDriftVC.com forum), and most of the placards detailed how each item was of relevance to the conflict. I believe the rifle is a Martini Henry, and not a Lee Metford. I am not sure about the carbine. Firearms are not my strong suit! Victorian campaigns are not popular at all in the US, which is why the display was such a pleasant surprise. Jonathan

Slightly off-topic, but since you asked... Here are some previous discussions (from Sword Forum International) on the Baltimore Show: 2008: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87884&highlight=baltimore 2010: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99929&highlight=baltimore

Mervyn, The blade could be straightened, although I do not have the tools or skills to do it. I am thinking about looking into the cost of having it done for me. I wonder if it would be worth the investment or not. The grip has faded with age and would have been darker when new. I am not sure about UK prices (although the prices for Victorian swords were less than UK dealers' list prices) . The Baltimore Show takes place in Baltimore, Maryland, USA. Most items are American, and the firearms probably outnumber the swords, but there is something for everyone at the show. This year there were more Victorian swords than in years past. It was wonderful in that I could see and handle several very nice swords with provenance, but I did not have the money to do any serious buying. This P1895 was available for a good price and was probably less than it would go for on ebay. Any US collector really owes it to himself or herself to attend this show at least once. It is the largest high-quality show of its kind in the US. In addition to the sales tables, there are always educational displays. I was pleased and surprised that there was one exhibit featuring militaria associated with the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879!

A few weeks ago I had the good fortune to attend the Baltimore Antique Arms Show. I adopted yet another P1895. I have not yet narrowed down who the original owner was, but there are a few finalists (initials are T.C.). This sword was made by Edward Thurkle, and was sold sometime between 1895-97. The 32.5" blade is a bit bent, but not too severely, and it has been sharpened for service. The scabbard is not original to the sword and probably dates to WWI.

WKC stands for Weyersberg Kirschbaum & Cie., an old and established firm in Solingen which still produces regulation military swords.

I have seen plated blades, but they usually look as if they've been plated later in life. Unfortunately the plating usually ruins the etching in that it becomes much less crisp looking. Your sword looks as you say. It seems early for blade plating, but I don't know much about the process nor when it came into use. Maybe RWL has some insight?

Will, I am not sure that Mervyn's sword is plated. I think it just retains its original polish. Jonathan

Some of these scabbards could have been made for the swords in the late 1890s, but as some are paired with Pattern 1854 infantry officers' swords I think a number of them are pre-1892, or at least pre-1895. Similar scabbards were in use in India well before they became the norm in the British Army (late 1890s).

Here is another pre-1892 Pattern 1827 with a Wyatt's Registered scabbard (from OldSwords.com):

Mervyn, I am glad to be of help. Nothing new on the horizon right now, unfortunately. I did get some wonderful books form Christmas, which can be just as much fun! Almost. I just wanted to add that one of the neat things about your sword is that you have both the service and dress scabbards. It is uncommon to have both with the sword nowadays. The service scabbard is particularly interesting because it is assumed that this style of scabbard did not appear until the late 1890s, but in fact they had been around since at least the 1880s if not earlier. Yours in an excellent example of an early brown leather field service scabbard. I love those metal fittings! Here is a similar scabbard from a sword that dates to c.1898. I would not be surprised if the locket on yours was a "Wyatt's Registered" like the one pictured above. Apparently this style emerged in the mid-1880s. Jonathan