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Very nice, both are stunning, the scarlet looks to be in very good condition. Very good to see a forage cap from that period.

Thanks Jerry! Both are indeed in really good condition. The cap is particularly nice in that it's marked inside the liner to the 2nd Battalion with the Guardsman's number too, I intend to contact the Regimental HQ to see if I can find anything of his service. I would get another photograph but alas I am cameraless at the moment.

I have to say I much prefer the peak shape on this to the modern pre-slashed types which sit on the bridge of the nose! It's been pinched and as such it's inclined but not ridiculous.

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On 1/10/2007 at 16:11, leigh kitchen said:

The Grenadier Guards wear the "flamed grenade" as a cap badge, ranks below full sergeant ("gold sergeant") and other than musicians (the guards term for what the army generally call bandsmen) wear the grenade with no device on the ball.

 

The grenade has been worn since 1896 when it was introduced for wear on the forage cap and continues unchanged in basic design although the materials used have varied.

 

Properly made of a yellow metal whch Kipling & King refer to as being gilding metal rather than brass, a WWI economy issue in brass would have been worn 1916 - c1919, but who can tell the metals apart?

 

K&K 891 refers to these gilding metal badges, as does Gaylor, both show the 17 pointed flame version & make no mention of the other less full flamed versions.

Both show smaller flamed badges but only of the types with devices on the ball, such as the full sergeants & musicians etc.

 

Some collectors feel that the smaller flamed 14, 15, 16 pointed flame badges are Canadian Grenadier Guards badge, but photographs & postcards show these & the 17 point flame badges worn by both British & Canadian.

 

During WWII a plastic economy version was issied, these were to be worn alongside the gilding metal badge, units were not to standardize on one version or the other so some men within a unit could wear brass, others plastic.

Often referred to as "being of "bakelite", these badges were actually of plastic.

 

Later an gold coloured anodised aluminium version was issued, and a cloth embroidered version of a noticably different design to the norm.

 

A blackened yellow metal version of the badge was also issued.

 

This photo shows a badge with 18 points to the flames:

18_Flame.JPG

18_Flame.JPG

I think you'll find that Musicians wear the Grenade with the cypher struck on the ball of the grenade and not a plain grenade. Also the grenade as a cap badge was or has been worn from about the 1830-40's.

Andy

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Yes, as I said  - "The Grenadier Guards wear the "flamed grenade" as a cap badge, ranks below full sergeant ("gold sergeant") and other than musicians (the guards term for what the army generally call bandsmen) wear the grenade with no device on the ball."

The grenade badge I refer to is the "cap badge" (cap "star") type, shown, which I believe was introduced in 1896 (although I stand to be corrected), rather than other forms of grenade insignia.

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Grenadier Guards musicians have the cypher struck on the ball, the grenade you show is just a variant. I believe it would be hard to date to be honest.

Andy

Ive just realised, if that grenade has a slider ( i believe it has ) it will date from around 1903-6 onwards.

Andy

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Yes, that's what I've said about the Musicians badge - I should've worded it differently perhaps.

I have 1/2 dozen or so of the slidered version of the GG badge - could also be RA of course.

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