Poulton Palmer

Very nice bar! The Somme cross is in a less common variant: Beautiful!! I also like the Regimental cross: can't you find a Regimentsgeschichte of IR 161?

Good luck,

Poulton.

@Saschaw: thanks for your opinion. Glad to hear that the ribbon bar looks ok.

@redeagleorder: so it is combattant: thanks for your reaction.

Is there any way there can be deducted in which regiments these combo's could be possible?

Am I correct assuming this is a Prussian gentleman?

Greetings Poulton.

The Oldenburg ribbon as a non-combattant seems very out of place. Have you blacklighted the backing/stitching?

Hi Stogieman,

I had to find a blacklight, but managed to borrow one. The backing and stitching doesn't light up or whatsoever. Is that as it should be?

Thanks for the reaction.

Poulton

Hello gentlemen,

I found this ribbon bar at a local militaria fair today. I was triggered by the absence of a FEK and TR ribbons.

It wasn't expensive so I took the chance that it may be not original.

Ribbon bar precedence: Please correct me if I am wrong:

* EKII: very worn and damaged ribbon;

* Preussen: Hohenzollern with swords;

* Hessen: Ernst Ludwig Verdienst Medaille; the ribbon is not white but actually kind of light blue-ish;

* Oldenburg: FA cross second class??;

* Braunschweig: war merit cross second class.

Any opinions are appreciated.

Greetings Poulton.

Hallo Shiggert,

wow, such a nice grouping and then from your grandfather: that is great!

Thanks for sharing this!

By the way: your English is perfect imo.

Greetings,

Poulton Palmer

Sorry litlle mistake.

Here you can see what I mean (btw: look at the Somme cross version).

BTW 2: I wasn't the one who broke up this Spange!!!!! Shame on him!!

Greetings Poulton

Hello

I woul'd like to know if there are two different types of Argonenn and Champagne crosses.

Ex. Type 1: The extrmes of the cross have a curve ending

Type 2: The extreme of the cross have sharp endings

Thank you very much

Esteban

Ola Esteban,

The Argonne Kreuz I have never seen in other (original) variations then the one in post 2. (If someone has another type, please show).

The Champagne Kreuz comes in two (to me known) original types: the one in post 2 and the type with flat arms. I have seen (I presume) original Verdun Kreuze with flat arms also.

greetings, poulton.

Gents,

thanks for your very clever and thoughtfull observations!! The last bar I have seen on german ebay and I thought it was "strange". The kind of sellers who are willingly "rebuilding" these spanges, just to earn a few bucks more: I have none respect whatsoever for them: flog them I would say (I would be glad to be of assistance).

MfG,

Poulton

Well there are some more fake-give-aways details present here as stated by Previtera's Imperial Sky ref. for a Juncker. Backplate rays should not extend all the way into the hallmarks if I am not mistaken. If you like aviation badges, there are some awesome educational books out there.

Thanks Otter76, I will look into that.

I will certainly invest in reference guides, it is worth the money.

Greetings Poulton.

I have some doubts and I don't like the document and would Not Buy this. I Seen many documents but noone like this. Maybe it is ok, but for me it doesn't looks like.

It is not hard to fake those documents.

Hallo Alex,

I understand off course. But look at this doc please, is quite similar, and for as far as I can see without stamp also:

http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/onlinekatalogeneu.html

Or when the link doesn't work: 65. Auktion, Losnr. 4153.

Greetings,

Poulton Palmer

@ Chris, where do you keep finding these things! This is a post-war Abschrift for a pre-war earned Flugzeugführer abzeichen? Nice.

@ Alex:

"I don't have an Uffz Wünsche at the FA 7. There are no literature published about the personal of this unit. Sorry." ==> that is a pity.

"The unit of KoGenLuft was disbanded after the war, so i don't think that hi signed documents long after the war." : ==> I agree.

Conclusion?:

* not original;

* original but for whatever reason without stamp. Without conclusive personell data on that unit not trace-able.

To me the doc looks old enough for a period document.

I ask myself: if it is a fake doc, why did the producer of the fake-doc choose only a Unteroffizier and not a Leutnant or ObLtn. ? Maybe the faker was that clever to know that for officers there are Ranglisten and so on, therefore are easier to check maybe??? But if so, he could also pick a name from the Unit that is known and so raising the market value of the doc etc.

Sorry, I am wondering off...I'd better quit.

Thanks for your input.

Greetings,

Poulton

Hi Alex,

thanks for your efforts. Maybe it is not original or maybe an after-war Abschrift? It looks old though.

I think everything stands or falls with the answer if there ever has been an Unteroffizier Wünsche in F(F)A 7. Are there

any sources anyone can recommend??

Greetings,

Poulton

It seems this document was directly hand out from KoGenLuft and it has no Unit stamp and sign. This is unussual and i have to check if i ever seen a document like this. Why at this time the Unit is still called FFA 7 it is unknown.

Can you check this? I am amazed.

I have seen there is a Lt d.R. Wünsche, but he served with another Abteilung. Is there any chance of finding names of pilots of the unit F(F)A??

MfG,

Poulton

Hi Gents,

this comes together with an award document (http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/57020-award-document-pilot-badge/).

To me it looks nice and I have felt it in hand, feels good. The piece is 100% hollow. But nonetheless I guess it is a fake.

I am a dummy and don't know anything (yet) about these awards, but I am willing to learn.

I have read many posts on this and other forums and this is what I understand until now about this award (but I could be totally wrong):

1. This berry shouldn't be here in this kind of badges;

2. These two should stick out more;

3. Looks like a little dent in the plane, should be straight.

4. There shouldn't be a crown on the back, by the way the stamps aren't very "clean", little bit sloppy.

more pics:

Gents, are my observations correct and can you add some?

This piece is hollow, this must be not that easy to make I think? I would like to know what persons did make these awards? And when?

Could this be a piece before WWII or is it after 1970's?

Hoping to learn something.

Poulton

Wow Jaba, thanks for your data!

I have better pictures now:

One thing that direct caughts the attention is absence of a stamp of the unit of somekind.

Good to know it is not an Bavarian unit. Because with the document comes the award also: a Prussian style Flugzeugführer Abzeichen.

Although I am a dummy in these awards I will post pictures of it in a new thread and try to give my opinion about the piece.

Hopefully "experts" will react and dummies like me can learn from this.

Greetings Poulton.

Hello gentlemen,

I can acquire this document from Feldflieger Abteilung 7. Any chance this is genuine?

I have read that FFA 7 was transformed in 1917 in Fliegerabteilung (FA) 7. And that it was a Bavarian unit.

I find it odd that on the document still states FFA 7. Possible explanations?:

* the award was earned months back when the unit was still named FFA 7;

* it is a mistake;

* the doc is fake.

The signature of von Hoeppner is a facsimile signature.

I can't find much about FFA 7, let alone names of pilots who served with this unit.

I also can't find any pictures of documents for the pilot's badge.

Greetings from Flanders,

Poulton

Tomorrow I will post bigger pics!

This bar is the only one I have got which is totally WWII.

Cheers,

Poulton

Hello Gents,

thanks for your comments.

Yesterday I finally had time to start cleaning the things we found on our little trip. They need better cleaning but as you can see all of it are remnants of ammo, this is offcourse the stuff that lies around the most. I am very carefull and won't take ammo home which causes a danger for me and my family. These things were harmless so we brought them home.

Things like personal gear, weapons, helmets and so on: you can still find these things, but in my opinion only in dug outs, trenches, pill boxes that are more or less "untouched". These are off course hard to find, but there are some places.....

You will need a metal detector at least to find some things. Take notice that in most areas it is forbidden in one way or another.

I just started a website were you can see things that may leave my collection (it isn't 100% ready yet, but in working order). I prefer trading: http://www.brugesmilitaria.be/, (sorry, only in dutch)

Last sunday me and my son and a friend and his son went for a walk: mission: to look at some interesting WWI-sites. Here some pictures.

This pill box lies in a wood on the mesen ridge looking out upon petit bois. Although I have walked a few miles over there in the past, I never saw it before, nice.

My friend is giving lessons to the next generation. Mount Kemmel is over there.

This guy was standing there if nothing has ever happened: tricky: don't touch this stuff!!!

It was very muddy and the clay under our boots was heavy, but I wanted to look in petit bois itself, and again a pill box I had never seen before. Why don't they restore these pill boxes as much as possible with 2014-2018 nearby? This one looked in good shape.

Walking towards Croonaert Chapel cemetery, the two little friends posing.

In Croonaert wood (= Bayernwald I think) Adolf Hitler supposedly would have stayed. Nowadays the site is totally restored but people who knew the site 15 years ago (or more) would agree with me (I think) when I say it has lost lots of its charm. But that is another story....

By the way, the pill boxes who stand in front of the gate of the museum in Zonnebeke are originally from Croonaert (please correct me if I am wrong).

In the vicinity we saw also this site: amazing! The wood is still in amazing condition, near mint! Of course the clay preserves very well. My brother said that the Australian tunnelers wanted to dig tunnels in this soil, only if they had good material. The wood was expensive but still firm after 100 years as you can see. One end of the tunnel was caved inn. The other end I could see for at least 6 metres. Could we find some interesting remnants over there???

During our little walk we also found some stuff, after cleaning I will post a picture of it.

Poulton Palmer

Wow, thanks! I would've bet on a total fantasy piece, odd to see the USA mentioned with only the year 1914 on the medal... Or does U.S.W. mean something else?

Hi,

I think this means: "und so weiter", : = and others.

Claudio,

Another superb grouping for you. Congratulations. You have superb taste, I must say. Some of the groupings you've shared here have been sublime.

All the best,

Jason

I agree!!!! But I hink these beauties only come at a cost price you must be able to pay.

Greetings,

PP

Dave,

Gremsl is german/austrian name that sounds perfect to me (and exists). In combination with Sternberg, maybe less logical? Maybe It could also be "Gremse", this is also a German name that exists.

greeeings,

Poulton

Hi, I like your medal bar very much. It is a more or less standard combination but a nice combo! keep up the good work!

Greetings from flanders Relichunter.

Sascha and Trakkles: Thanks for your answers, now it is clear to me.

Poulton