paddywhack

Could be worth researchin if he is entitled to the Defence Medal for WW2 service? noticing the ARP badge.

yeah i was thinking that myself! going to take a look at ancestry again tonight and see if i cant find his service records and pension records as we has invalided out of the army!

thanks for that im planing to get a few other people researched so i can add that to the list i do know he was very badly wounded in the left knee so much so he got invalided out of the army! :beer:

amazing info on that!!!! amazing what one name on the back of a medal can bring up!! :beer:

and MIC card!!!

and his wound badge! also a nice sweetheart cap badge for the lancs!!!

his trio! sorry for the pic i had to do them with my camera on my phone!!

although it was only this year is started to get into british medal collecting i always knew we still had my great grandfather medals from ww1!

he was in the 1/east lanc regiment!! and only joined in 1911 as it was the army or being a farm laborer!!

i didnt know to much only that he got wounded very early in the war and that this meant he to invalided out of the army by i think 1917(and from what my grand says it was the best mornings work he ever did cos he got to hang out paris for 6 months!! )

so when i finally got to see them at the start of the month it was really strange but really cool as while i have other people medals this is my family's only medals! \my uncle currently has them but while he isnt to interested in them he is interested in family history so hopefully they will stay in the family!

i do have on question,iv been trying to find his enlistment and pension records on ancestry but so far i have been able to find a match!i know he enlisted in 1911 as i have a copy of his soldiers book and a pic of him just after he enlisted(which handily is over in my girlfriends house and shes away for a month!!) so is there any chance of an help to narrow him down or even a point in the right direction would be great!

so any help would be fantastic!thanks

and here is the pic of his 1914 star where he was wounded and his wound badge which is listed lost on the MIC card!!! ;)

here yah go!!!!!! :beer:

It has just been announced that Her Majesty The Queen has authorised the wearing of the Elizabeth Cross in uniform. It may be pinned on the wearer's right side above the breast pocket.

(Source: October 2010 issue of Soldier magazine)

so is it to be awarded for death?if so how is then is it to be worn???by next of kin?

Can anyone give me a valuation on a Black and tan war of independance medal, This is a genuine medal and it can be proved with history from an old family member who it was given to many years ago. We just want to know is it valuable and should it be kept safe and not on display..

in ireland they go for anything up to E550(not sure what online dealers do them for though!) how ever they are pretty common and i reckon there over valued!(you can find them all the time at fairs and dealers shops and the quantity of them hasnt gone down but price has gone up!) but with a bit of family history that will help the value though you need iron clad providence to prove that the medal is to the family medal otherwise its just a story im afraid!

Unfortunately the files pertaining to the NY Honours awards for 1946 (9.1.46) do not appear to be extant in the WO373 series (British Army Awards) or the AIR2 series (RAF Files relating to the BEM/GM/GC awards committee containing the discussion papers on those awards to all 3 services).

The 1946 file (AIR2/9289) just states "owing to the shortage of time and the large number of recommendations the Committee have adopted the unusual procedure of agreeing the ommissions from the New Years List with the departments concerned, rather than circulating the citations for general criticism."

It is mentioned that proposed were

Admiralty 275 of which 260 were approved

War Office 750 of which 693 were approved

Air MInistry 545 of which 530 were approved.

I have yet to find any Army recommendations for the BEM for NY (or Birthday) Honours awarded in 1946

thats why i cant find anythinks!thanks for the info though!il try the route of contacting the reg mesuem!thanks again!

is this the right section as nothing seems to be coming up!!!!!and the annoying thing is i have seen other people with the same first or last name awarded the BEM!!!!!

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=22&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1

(the national archives always stump me!!!!)

thanks for any help!!

oh and it was announced in the LG in july of 46!!

Try the documents online section of the UK's National Archives website. They have all of the WWII recommendation documents digitised and you can download them in pdf format for about £3 each.

really!!!Fantastic il take look so!!!thanks for that!! :beer:

and the rest of the rim! so is there any chance of find out why it was awarded? maybe unit history local papers if i can find him??

thanks for any help!! :beer:

name on rim!!

pretty sure i know the answer but never hurts to ask!!picked up this nice BEM group to a S/SGT Claude Paterson R.A.S.C on another forum and while its not to any mad cool unit i really wanted a BEM group and this fit the bill but i was wondering i have where it announces where he has been awarded the BEM in the london gazette but not why!i was reading that the later war BEMs just like the late war ww1 MMs dont have the citation as to why it was awarded!is there any hope of finding out how it was won???any help would be great!!

thanks for that mike!thought it was something like that!!!still interesting that the serial number on the number is the lower one!have to find out about the london regiment might be able to find out more about him!!thanks again!!! :beer:

picked a nice victory medal up there today and when i got his MIC it shows 3 numbers on it, just wondering are these 3 numbers 3 separate service numbers or 3 different reg number as looks like he moved about abit!

the name on the rim is 3012 PTE A.N.CHARROSIN. 7-LONDON.R.

looks like he was in the london reg the machine gun corps and the royal engineers!! quite interesting!dont think on his MIC theres anything other then the medal roll!also would it be normal to have 3 separate numbers when you moved??(id say it was just want to make sure!!)interesting though is that the lower number is on the medal!

any help on this would be great!! :beer:

I have no idea if they had or did not have the devices that are not there!

I have listed some names which, if you are so inclined, you could investigate further.

I shall mark you down as a time waster and not bother next time.

james i am sorry that you think i am a time waster but believe it or not i have checked those names but have only been able to take one name off this list(vitor darwin if its the same person i found via wiki as he had ww1 service and died in 72 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Victor_Darwin ), all i have access to is google(which is VERY hit and miss!!) and the medal year book and the national archive(which you can from what i understand only look at the records from ww1 and back) i honest dont even know how you managed to come up with these names for this bar but i am VERY grateful for you taking the time and effort to do that!any and all help is greatly appreciated and i always say to people who help me out that if theres anything i can do in return please just!

i would LOVE to be able have the knowledge of researching british stuff but iv only started to actively collect it in the last 3\4 months having mostly collected german militaria and that field has limit research for the normal everyday soldier! ,so again i am extremely grateful for the help you gave me and as i said if there is anything i can do in return please just ask!

Try blacklight, might work.

yeah i was thinking about trying that first before i send it chris!!!

i spent about 20 minutes on sunday wrecking my eyes(think there only back to normal now!!) and im pretty sure theres a 5 in there to so it would be 29-59 so far!!!

Perhaps, but some of these fellows seems to have had interesting careers.

Mr Mallett, for example, joined the FO in 1937 and won his MM in the RAMC during the Second World War. Who knows, this may turn out to be his. He may have been one of those 'odd military types' found 'attached' to the FO and tend to turn up at the right place, at the right time, whenever there is local trouble afoot. Certainly the Order of St John at the end would fit with some sort of medical service.

As far as the ISO goes, the minimum required service period was 25 years and any statutory pensionable period in wartime service counted and was included.

Cheers,

James

but what about the missing devices? looks like theres a 2nd MM rosette and then MID and 8 army number!do any of the people have these? these devices would really narrow it down to a few people if not only one!!personally i think its a put together!

No the ribbon is wider than the MM so it can't be a DCM. Both these ribbons are around 32mm wide, whereas the ISO / ISM is around 38mm wide.

Also if you look carefully, apart from the missing 8 numeral from the Africa Star and the missing MID from the War Medal, there are two small thread pick marks on the MM suggesting that also had a rosette on it denoting a second award. I don't believe there were that many MM and bars for WWII. I have more doubts each time I look at the ribbons.

yup!from what i can see it has thee maximum number of devices and that is worrying with the amount of ribbons on this bar and the length of service!!well its going back any way!!

thanks for the info and help though!!(i know alot more about ribbon bars then when i started!!!!) :beer:

I've been digging further in my old magazines etc. The OMRS published an article by John Tamplin in their Miscellany of Honours No 10 (published 1996).

John had done a study of the ISO / ISM between 1902 and 1994 and produced a whole range of statistics including awards of other medals.

Apparently there were 31 recipients of the MC with either the ISO (14) or ISM (17). Also there were 608 recipients of the MM with the ISM but none with the MM and ISO. So that would indicate that the ribbon bar is not correct unless possibly the ISM has been placed in the order where the ISO should be worn.

I do have an ISM which has the man's name plus DCM and MM after his name. There is a man of that name in the London Gazettes with both post nominal letters suggesting the medal is correct. I found the man's DCM for WWI but couldn't find his MM so did he perhaps embelish his own awards with his colleagues and this was carried through when he was awarded his ISM?

thanks for going to all that trouble!to me when i first got it and then did the maths it did seem there was just to much service on this bar!!!also there seems to have the most amount of devices on the ribbons a s well!i reckon someone did make this up but put to many ribbons on it!for me the ISM really kills it!!thanks again i do appreciate you going to all that trouble!! :beer:

The ISM ranks at No. 29 in the order of precedence - and is therefore, ahead of the medals.  See my short post - ' A Mix of Minor Medals '  on page 2..

thanks meryn i was looking for that thread!thats where i read it!!! :beer:

didnt i read here that the ism comes before the mm?