Scowen

I hear you on both counts!

Personally I have no problem with Schmidhausler using this type of mark, for some reason they used a whole host of different styles, from the usual standard raised letters to individual letters being stamped out with a dot punch.  However, that said I would be cautious if it was a different maker...

No Joe, that's still the only one that I'm aware of....

Very nice.  Interestingly, until a couple of months ago I had never seen (or should I say noticed) the Siemans piece before, now this is the 4th one that I've seen.

Don

👍

Indeed.  I've also learned since this thread was originally posted that this piece came in two sizes!

Don

It's still there Joe.  Provided you are logged in, it should be visible under the "Special Interest Section" towards the bottom of the main forums page.

Don

They are just the items that do not fit in my collection & need new homes....

Don

On 28/01/2023 at 23:12, --dj--Joe said:

How common was it to see a 1939 badge minus the swastika?

 

I do recall that Don had or has a 1942 oak leaf shaped tinnie type badge with a target. No swastika in sight. Always liked that piece.

 

--dj--Joe

 I was wrong Joe, I do still have it.  It was in my "throw out" box waiting for me to find it a new home.

Not from the Tirol, but as it has been mentioned here I'll post it.

Don

On 07/03/2023 at 20:00, --dj--Joe said:

I would guess there was not an enamel version of the membership badge.

 

--dj--Joe

I've never seen any sign that there were enamel versions.

Hi Joe,

Here is my stickpin, unmarked to the reverse.

I also have this large (approx A4) document with the envelope it was issues in.....

I've seen these over the years but have never really been comfortable with them, they look cast to me.  Maybe another member who knows more about the HJ can help?

Don

Very nice Lance.  I have one too.  Also un undated one for Heimatwerk Salzburg.  I've not been able to find out anything about these pieces yet....

Here is a photo taken at the Salzburg Gauschießen in 1943 showing Gauleiter Dr. Scheel & Kreisleiter Kastner on the Armbrustschießstand....

You may be interested to know that the badge being worn on the lapel of the man standing on the right in the picture is likely to be of this design....
 

Now that's an old one....  Very nice though....

That's a sweet little pin.  First time for me, thanks for posting it.

Don

On 04/02/2023 at 19:29, --dj--Joe said:

Don,

You are the only major collector of these badges that I am aware of. I would imagine there are others. Do they share knowledge with you?.......

 

.....Thank you Don for your dedication and sharing of your knowledge.

 

--dj--Joe

Thank you Joe.

Yes I do know of other collectors who specialise in this area to a certain degree.  Most are in Austria & are reluctant to help "outsiders" or allow items to leave the country....

On 04/02/2023 at 20:02, Lance O. Adams said:

Don mentioned different pin set-ups in a message above so thought I would post this one up.  Handsome badge or perhaps tinnie for the Kreis-Schiessen Bregenz of 1944.  Member Wood posted his badge back in 2011 but my example has a completely different pin assembly.  

 

Hi Lance,

These rectangular, crimped pin plates were used extensively by the manufacturer Alois Klammer from Innsbruck, & also Karl Pichl, also from Innsbruck, it's almost like a finger print.  There are some who maintains that linking pin plates to specific manufacturers is not reliable as manufacturers outsourced the attachment process to specialist companies.  This may be true, but if you study enamel badges & their manufacturers close enough you can often find that some favoured certain types of attachment.  Such as Hoffstätter for instance, who often used small oval pin plates & Klammer who used these crimped ones.  Having said that, just because one of these Klammer made pieces does not have this style of pin plate  doesn't mean that the badge is bad, it's just that they can very often be found with this style.

Don

16 hours ago, --dj--Joe said:

 The prototype is interesting and thought provoking. Only one example known I take it?

 

--dj--Joe

 

 

I've only seen the one, however there may be other examples with different pin set ups etc.  I have 3 Prototypes of the 3 year badge.  The front of the badge is different to the "standard" 3 year badge, but is the same on all of the 3 prototypes, but all 3 badges have different reverse set ups....

14 hours ago, --dj--Joe said:

I did note a badge that made me wonder -- 1943 Kreis Volkermarkt. the badge I saw had KK-Gewehr at the top, was it a small caliber event only or are there other badges for large caliber and pistol?

 

--dj--Joe

Regarding the Völkermarkt badges. I've only ever seen the KK badges & a quick look at a newspaper clipping I have only refers to the shoot & the number of badges awarded, no mention of the weapons used.  In articles from shoots which had both, it is usually mentioned.

For anyone who isn't familiar with the badges Joe is asking about, here is a scan of them...

8 hours ago, --dj--Joe said:

Looking about  I saw that the Kufstein wreaths were painted green. Some examples I assume it's either worn away or absorbed.

 

--dj--Joe

You do see examples that are painted green, I suspect that it was either done by the owners or post war.  Most are plain metal colour.  If anything I'd say that they may have been gold which has been lost....

I have an example with a green enamel wreath which I believe was a prototype.  The Kreismeisters are two piece badges, a gold grade badge simply dropped onto a larger solid backed wreathed bed.  With the prototype, it was dopped onto an open wreath.

Below is a scan showing the prototype & regular Kreismeister with the gold grade between them.

11 hours ago, --dj--Joe said:

That is quite a nice picture. Thanks for the close up Don. I imagine period in wear images pertaining to Tirol badges are few and far between.

 

--dj--Joe

Thank you Gentlemen.  As rare as hens teeth as the saying goes.....

Here's one I've never shown anywhere before with an Allgemeines Gauabzeichen in wear.  Unfortunately I can't make out which year...

11 hours ago, Lance O. Adams said:

Great photo Don!  I'm a S/84/98 bayonet collector so loving the detail there as well.  

 

Here is another badge I found interesting.  Kufstein 1943 Kreis-Schiessen.  I believe in gold?  Brooks posted a very similar badge for 1942 back in 2008.  Backing made of pot metal or zinc, perhaps zamak?  Reverse is unmarked.  I worried a bit about this one but have been assured by several that it's 100% good.  

 

Apart from the shoddy soldering which I suspect indicates a replaced pin, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it....  It's a Gold with Oakleaves grade, or Kreismeister.  All of the Kreisschiessen came in four grades, bronze, silver, gold & the Kreismeister which was gold with oakleaves.....

Here is a scan of my set showing all four grades of the badge.

Don

On 29/01/2023 at 18:05, --dj--Joe said:

 

To bad TerryG's in wear picture back on page 3 is not clear and focused in on the badge.

 

--dj--Joe

 

 

I now own that picture 😁

Unfortunately, even blown up the details need to be able to tell from the from whether it was a Poellath or A.G. aren't clear enough.  We can see however that it is the Kleinkaliber version rather than the Armeegewehr....

Another nice piece Lance, although not really my area as this is German rather than Austrian.  I've seen these with two different makers, Lauer as with yours & D.Fechler, Bernsbach.  The latter I suspect are fakes as the enamel leaves much to be desired....  They also come with an added Swastika disc glued to the target, but whether those are period I cannot say....

D

15 hours ago, --dj--Joe said:

How common was it to see a 1939 badge minus the swastika?

 

I do recall that Don had or has a 1942 oak leaf shaped tinnie type badge with a target. No swastika in sight. Always liked that piece.

 

--dj--Joe

It's fairly unusual, more so on German pieces than Tiroler pieces.  I suspect the reason for it on this one that Lance posted is that they were made the year before in preparation for issuing in 1939.  The Anschluss happened & either it was too late to change the design, or too expensive....

I remember the one badge ypou mean Joe.  Not sure that I still have it though.....

1 hour ago, Lance O. Adams said:

 

Thanks Don!

Group shots of all of my round badges.  I thought that Ihad a couple of others but couldn't find them.  All are unmarked but for those with the arrows in the reverse views.  Thanks for looking ......

 

 

Thank you for posting them Lance.  All except one of the lapel badges in the bottom row are also Allgemeines Gauabzeichen.  The exception is the last one on the right, the Pistole 1944 which is the lapel version of the Landesschiessen badge. Regarding the larger badges, as you know the A.G. & Co pieces are controversial, however I like them....  Otherwise there isn't anything to worry about with any of the pieces that you show here.

Don

You have good taste, these are nice little badges. It’s an Allgemeines Gauabzeichen or General Gau badge. They were given out at Kreis level at the area shooting house. 

Never a problem Joe. I find this subject just as confusing as it is interesting. I spend years looking for an answer a question that I have, only to have the answer raise further questions 😱