Scowen

I do like that RZM mark Quite stylised & very art deco....

Nice pin Rick. This one is the standard membership pin to be worn on the lapel.

As to the significance of the date, I'm not really sure . Angolia states that an honour pin was issued each year & that it was stopped in 1938, but gives no reason as to what it was for. JR Cone says that they were given out to members who took part in the various road meets......

H?sken in his catalogue lists dates found as 1934, 1937 & 1938. The '34 seems to be most common followed by '38, I've yet to see a '37 (a good friend of mine has been searching for one for 40 years!). Note both H?sken & Angolia mention 1938 as the last date however I have seen one for 1939...... I never managed to get my hands on to to compare unfortunately......

Cheers

Don

There is a very interesting thread over on WAF showing the various designs of this badge & a little history behind them. As I know that you rarely if ever visit there rick I'l sure Joe Wotka will not mine me copying his information here. Here's the link for reference http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...highlight=Forst

Here's Joe W's reply

"I believe this subject was discussed at length on Houston Coates' forum over at GD.com, but perhaps the older thread was nuked. While the Feld- und Forsthuters were part of Prussia for decades, the badges being discussed were rather recent and totally III Reich. They were created by order of the Prussian Interior Ministry on August 10, 1933. The original style Prussian flying eagle was to be soon replaced by the Pro Patria style Prussian eagle introduced by Goring with swastika, sword and lightening bolts incorporated in the design.

The regulations called for both Feld-und Forsthuters and Ehrernfeldhuters to wear no uniform. As a symbol of their official position, they were issued either the police star as a badge or a green armband with the wording "Feld-und Forst-Huter" in centered on each side of a white metal police star. There is no explanation if the metal badge on the armband is the same as the police badge or a different style. In addition, employing authority could equip the Huters with a service cap after the style of the Gemeindepolizei officials.

Those employed were authorized to be armed with a walking staff and if locally required, a police truncheon or blade sidearm. In certain circumstances, a handgun was issued according to all laws and regulations.

The F.W. Assmann & Sohne catalog of the later 1930s illustrated both the older style Prussian eagle as welll as a new style shown for the Ehren-Feldhuter. Both the badges are described as an arm badge with hinge pin."

Angolia & Littlejohn wrote a very good book called "Labour Organisations of the Third Reich" which goes into great detail regarding ranks etc. My advice would be to buy a copy as it will answer your questions in far more detail than you will get here.

Cheers

Don

Welcome to the forum Michael, good to see you over here. Thank you for the extra information & I look forward to seeing some items from your collection

Cheers

Don

The tinnie is shown here http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=274912 may we see the whole picture please?

Cheers

Don

As far as I'm aware the clasps show where the person had served.

According to the award document there were 8 sets of clasps:

Baltikum 1919/20

Grenzschutz 1919/20

Sparakus 1919/23

Oberschlesien 1924

Rhein-Ruhr 1923/24

K?rnten 1919

Rhein-Ruhr-Gefangener

Mitglied v?lkischer Kampfverb?nde 1922/23

In his catalogue, Detlev shows one for the party (NSDAP 1922/23), whether that is what was meant by Mitglied v?lkischer Kampfverb?nde I do not know:

Cheers

Don

more

More images posted on behalf of KDVR

Hello Detlev,

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Indeed as I mentioned before, I am not saying that they are fakes (or accusing you), they may as Rick said be a found store. I am just worried as I have never seen such fixings on this model of badge, such things always are worth noting & watching for as the fakers are getting very clever.

Let's hope that they are just unusual variants.

Cheers

Don

Indeed they do, which is why I'm not screaming fake yet. I haven't heard of any finds on the "grapevine" except for the recent Deschler hoard of EK's & KVK's.

Also these were very early badges only used during a brief period in the very early months of the regime. And I still would have expected to have seen these fittings on them before if used during the period.

No, no markings at all.

Cheers

Don

At first glance there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the two sets of badges offered by Detlev in yesterday's update, construction style etc is of the period.

However, in all of my years of collecting I have never seen these design DRK badges with either a button hole or stickpin fixing!!!!! I have only ever seen them with a pinback. Now I can't say that they are fake as I do not know, however it does seem strange to me that one of each should turn up at the same time. I advise keeping an eye on the various dealer & auction sites to see if anymore appear, if so then I think that we may have our answer....... And more trouble because they look very good, put the correct fixing on them & voil?!!!

First DRK civil badge 13th form (H? 5601an)

Next DRK civil badge 14th form (H? 5601ao)

Cheers

Don

A nice find indeed Joe. These lapel versions of the larger numbered Meistersch?tze badges are almost as dificult to find as their big brothers.

As you can see by the pin, these were also originally gold in colour, but due to the base metel used are rarely found with their finish still intact.

Thanks for showing it.

Cheers

Don

A welcome addition James.

Not so much wiggly as we've discussed before Joe, but heavily crimped.

Cheers

Don

I didn't realise until just now that these come in different sizes 20mm & 23mm

Cheers

Don

New one in today, marked to Assmann.

Wow, that's a nice looking badge, thanks for sharing

I've inquirered about this little medal before, trying to find out who actually came up with it, but no suggestions were brought forward.

cheers

Peter

I wonder whether this medal was given to the observers at the election. As with elections today I imagine that international representatives were sent/invited to check that it had been performed correctly.

Cheers

Don

Koj is your man for this stuff, but I don't know if he visits any longer.

As far as I'm aware these patches were worn by officals on the left breast of the track suit top. You can also find them with "Sportamt" & "?bungswart" written on them.

Cheers

Don

I'm sorry to say that #45 in 1943 wasn't issued either. For some reason none of the 8 numbers between #37 & #47 were awarded that year.

In fact looking at the early double figure numbers for all the years (1941-1944), quite a number do not seem to have been issued for some unknown reason.......

Sorry

Don

This is very irritating as I've seen this symbol before quite recently & I can't remember where!!!

Let me think on it.......

Sorry for coming in so late Robert

Indeed a very interesting piece you found there & I would tend to agree with your assessment, a rare find I would think.

Cheers

Don

Excellent

Any chance of a picture of that add from the web page?

Cheers

Don

The symbol is the the head of Pallas Athene, godess of the arts. First used in 1933 for the first day of German art (15th Oct), it is more usually associated with the opening of the Haus der Deutschen Kunst in Munich on the 16th July 1937.

The badge Rick mentions is the tinnie issued to celebrate the event "Tag der Deutschen Kunst" 16th-18th July 1937.

What the fork is for is anyones guess. Could be cutlery from the cafeteria for the visitors, or , from the celebration meal at the opening (if there was one) or just sold as mementos........

Cheers

Don

It's the 1939 version of the Schwaben HJ games tinnie. The 1938 version is basically the same but in silver with the name of the games on it.

Cheers

Don