Scowen

Actually, it's VDA.

Robert is correct. With the Gothic Fractur font used at this time, the capitol V often looked like a captal B. This can often make translating period documents quite difficult.

The section below shows the capital V in use from a period publication, it says "Standsch?tzenverbandes Tirol-Vorarlberg"

Cheers

Don

I am sorry, I did not know when I posted earlier that in the software update that the ability to add attachments had been lost!!! Hopefully it will be corrected soon.......

I am not a HJ specialist & have not studied these badges. Hopefully Xen may be able to help here.

Cheers

Don

I'm sorry but I do not follow links to hosting sites. Please post the image here.

Nice to see it at last Joe. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Cheers

Don

Good spot Joe, looks like our esteemed member passed it on to a dealer without mentioning the doubts to it's originality............

It's on emedals current update for $1,000!!! & being offered with a Niemann cert no less Some fool will buy it just because of that

Cheers

Don

These things are starting to turn up all over the place, here's another.......

Now that is cool........ I do like it when items like programs & cards etc feature the event badge on them. Not quite as much as pictures in wear mind you.......

Cheers

Don

...not too long ago, I posted a particularly 'ordinary' looking SA tinnie (ahem!)...

Ordinary tinnie my arse!!!

Lovely shot, as you say shame it wasn't just a little lower.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers

Don

Well done paul!

Already tried that, still no images I'm afraid........ Try actually loading them to this thread.

I am not seeing any images, are you using remote hosting?

The reverse

Well it's been over two years since this thread was first posted, thought I'd add something that fits with the subject.

Traditions cap badge.

Cheers

Don

Indeed I do! Just one of the many interesting conversations we had

And I think I am able to name this maker now.......

I believe it's Hermann Bauer of Schwäbisch, Gmünd. They used an almost identical mark (a crown over a shield containing the letters HB) on their silverware (see below).

I love these "SA Reserve" pins there are such a variety of makers out there. Anyone have others they wish to show?

Cheers

Don

Very interesting Xen, I've never seen these before (not that I can say that I've been looking). As you say, it's interesting to see that they used the same cards & just rubber stamped the grade name on them.

Cheers

Don

Excellent Xen! Very interesting. It would be great to find the extra info, perhaps it can be found in the Berlin Doc' centre?

Cheers

Don

Great information Xen, thanks!

Unfortunately he doesn't give much info, but he does list what they had to do to get the badge. Here's what he states:

HJ Sch?tzen-Abzeichen

Firing five shots from a lying position with rifle supported on a sandbag, five from lying postion with rifle unsupported, & five from a kneeling position with unsupported rifle.

HJ Scharfsch?tzen-Abzeichen

Ten shots had to be fired from the same postions as above with, in addition, a further ten "rapid fire" from a standing, rifle unsupported, position.

HJ Meistersch?tzen-Abzeichen

The firing positions were as before, but a much higher score was required.....

Schiessauszeichnung des DJ

Conditions for award of this DJ badge are not known, but they may have been the same tests as for the HJ Rifleman's badge, but requiring a lower standard of performance.

Cheers

Don

Thanks Nick, I was wondering whether these were covered in the new book, I haven't got around to buying it yet

Cheers

Don

I haven't seen it so far......

Cheers

Don

I'd say it's Otto Wolter, Schw?bisch Gm?nd, founded 1875. They used a challis or wine glass in their silver hallmark from their founding until 1991 (see below)

Cheers

Don

Do you have a period reference for the introduction of the silver class Don? That would certainly give an answer to the question of whether there were indeed three different badges in 1935 as implied by "HJ im Dienst".

Unfortunately not.

I'm going by Littlejohn's 1988 book on the H.J. (which I've just dug out again to check my memory) where he states that Schirach instituted the first badge in '36, two more (the silver & D.J.) in '38 & finally the gold in '41. He briefly mentions them in his earlier 1968 book but gives no real detail except to say that one came out in '36 & then two more in '38.....

Cheers

Don

And of course it may not have been made as a deliberate fake to deceive people. Badges have been made as copies for re-enactors & films costumes for many years, in which case the reverse would not need marking.

Xen,

As the H.J. & D.J. were both Gliederungen der NSDAP, surley all of their insignia & Leistungsabzeichen had to be RZM marked under the order of Dec 20th 1934? Am I correct in thinking that these badges up to the silver grade were introduced in 1936 which would discount any transitional pieces? And the gold (shown at the start of the thread was 1941, even later......

Cheers

Don

I agree with Xen, I find it very difficult to believe that one of these without an RZM code could be original.....

Sorry

Don

reverse

Welcome to the forum Student, & thanks for posting your pin. I have moved your Danzig badge to it's own thread ( http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=22743 ) as this one is purly for the Type 1 Amtsträgerabzeichen.

Cheers

Don