saschaw

On 06/02/2022 at 01:59, chuck said:

(...) what Bulgarian rank would have received a crown order 3rd class with swords??

I cannot name the proper Bulgarian rank, but according to Willi Geile, Im Militär-Wochenblatt veröffentlichte preußische Ordens-Verleihungen. April 1914 bis November 1918. Hagen 1985, p. 46/47, the relatively few WW1 era awards of this grade went to Majore and Oberstleutnants.

Unfortunately, he's only listing German recipients. Not too many, by the way, and there were certainly neither too many Bulgarian officers that received this honour!

Here's another one that sold recently on German ebay, but this yellow and black ribbon is certainly not the right one. I still think "yours" is probably the proper ribbon, as I think I've seen it several times before.

On 06/03/2022 at 18:46, scottplen said:

2nd guy ?, large silver Austrian bravery ?

I honestly have no idea what he's wearing, but to me, it certainly does not appear to be any Austrian bravery medal - too small for a big one, and too big for a small one. Also, the ribbons don't seem to fit.

My best guess is this are two pre-war awards, given he's wearing the EK in his tunic's button hole. A full picture that also shows his helmet might give us clues. I guess he's an NCO in the Royal Saxon army?!

From what I have heard, this book does not bear to today's standards. However, I'm not aware of any other book on the topic. A major German collector I think might be working on a book, but is far from publishing it. For now, we're probably best reading threads and discussing pieces here and on similar platforms...

Tomorrow, two more ugly fake medals bars offered by afanade2014 will be sold on German ebay ... beware!

Another suspicious medal bar that seems to be made by the same "workshop" was recently sold here.

On 15/01/2022 at 18:55, saschaw said:

We have already seen a Deumer Spange in this thread (...)

I showed the first one for reference, but now it's just bragging. Sorry! Here's another exact same piece, from an old stock I was able to acquire. There won't be a third Spange of this type, at least not from that source...

I do not like this bar, for the simple fact it's one that was originally sold by one of our "famous" ebay tailor friends, hagekna41, in 2006. A forum search for his alias should turn up some older threads and other bars of his. Without this information, admittedly, it could easily pass as "probably authentic".

On 04/03/2022 at 17:32, 91-old-inf-reg said:

(...) most likely a Wurttemburger as the Verdienstmedaille is put in the second place.

This, however, seems rather unlikely to me, given there is a Prussian long service award in the bar's last place, not one from Württemberg. But given the bar is probably a fantasy put-together, does it matter?

I agree with everything Andreas said. Furthermore, given this Major is wearing an unusual uniform that might be attributable to a specific unit, he could probably be identified with some more information. Is it known when and where this photo was taken? If so, it's probably just a quick look in the appropriate rank list!

I don't see any red flags here and have to disagree with what BlackcowboyBS and VtwinVince said. It's a well know design, and all(!) of the craftsmanship and material looks period to me. I added some pictures of one I sold some years ago. It did have another inlay style and also had Friedrich Sedlatzek's signet imprinted in the lid, but other than that... actually, these cases, in my eyes, are to be considered the most convincing ones.

I hope we agree no 1914 2nd class cases were handed out officially, and all are private purchased additions?! At least to the best of my knowledge...

If you're seeing pieces that are available, but you're not sure if they are authentic, VtwinVince and scottplen, why not post links and/or pictures here? I'm very sure we could sort them out!

21 minutes ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

A price to high been paid hurts once (...)

But on the other hand, these crosses are not really rare, especially if you're looking for one without(!) ribbon. If there's no need for a rush, then there's no need to pay extreme prices. Just my two pennies worth.

On 21/02/2022 at 06:57, David M said:

Oh I had no idea about the ribbon. Just curious about what MgVM stands for 

Then your answer might be: It has to be something like Montenegrinische goldene Verdienstmedaille. Just a guess, but it certainly is something from the Principality of Montenegro...

A nice and authentic bar, and not too common with the Alsen cross - or at least, its ribbon. I guess these crosses do still, as singles, sell below EUR 100 here in Germany. You're both lucky you have medal bars, which means you can buy crosses without ribbon. That really does make a difference...

Here's one that sold just a few days ago on German ebay, but I have a really, really bad feeling about it. Even these crosses are being faked in big numbers now... and the market is filling up with that crap.

This type is well-know and widely considered fake. If you search for "small crown fake" on this forum, you'll find a very educative thread here. There has also been some reference to these fakes in this long obsolete thread. Most striking feature is their die-struck and painted, though stepped core. Besides that, they're around as 1813, 1870, 1914 and even 1939 crosses... and all are from the same tools.

On 19/02/2022 at 07:23, v.Perlet said:

The figures of the number 1870 are not matching to a real sized Typ A or Typ B (...)

A reduced size cross, a miniature, or any private purchase piece would not necessarily share the design features of the award type. In fact, they tend not to do so. After all, every tool maker, as an artisan, has their own small characteristics of design...

On 19/02/2022 at 07:23, v.Perlet said:

I also would fully agree with VtwinVince comments, whereas the comment regarding markings would refer to original sized EK's.

As a non-Native speaker, I might have gotten you wrong here, but: Full sized 2nd class crosses from the 1870 type are usually not maker marked. This is true for 100 % of the awarded crosses, and more than 95% of later private purchase pieces. Thus, a maker mark on a 1870 2nd class cross is generally perceived as a "red flag".

This must be one of the most interesting threads of the past months here... thanks, Komtur, for sharing your skill and passion in researching and restoring these absolutely terrific groups! It seems an exemplary manner to me you're also documenting even here in public these groups were restored, where most(?) other fellow collectors or dealers might maybe keep silence about these subtle facts...

On 08/10/2021 at 20:59, Deutschritter said:

(...) name the four neck orders (...) on Robert Joseph Esser's (1833-1920) jackett?

I think the fourth neck cross remained unnamed until now. It's apparently not listed in his DOA 1908/09 entry, but my best guess would be an Ehrenkomturkreuz of the Großherzoglich Oldenburgischer Haus- und Verdienstorden des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig. But is it? Might anyone have a younger source mentioning Robert Esser with this award?

11 hours ago, graham said:

I have an unmounted one, although I am not sure about the ribbon

With unmounted ones, you can never be sure if they were awarded this way, but I don't see anything that makes me doubt it's at least an authentic ribbon - as far as this can be determined from photos alone...

8 hours ago, Nicolas7507 said:

He had an KO3, but received it only in 1913, so he could be a good candidate.

The von Beck were Baden nobility, so it's easy to assume Leonhard von Beck also had a BRJM... however, according to Deutscher Ordens-Almanach 1908/09, he also had a China commemorative medal - given his Bekleidungsamt position, almost certainly in Stahl. Thus, he is probably not our man, I'd say, and would still go with Kreßmann...

13 hours ago, scottplen said:

I figured private purchase piece ?

Well, they all are. There was no officially handed out case for 2nd class Iron Crosses in the "Great War", instead there are literally hundreds of different, privately purchased cases and boxes. Still, I have to agree with VtwinVince and v.Perlet: This one does not convince me as a contemporary made EK case. I think much more it's some sort of old box that was rather recently altered for (bogus) "collectors purposes". I'm sorry!

By the way, this thread should be moved to the EK sub-forum that we have exclusively for Iron Cross related topics of all eras. Could maybe some moderator do the magic? Thank you!

On 08/02/2022 at 20:25, saschaw said:

What do you think, could it be his bar as well?

I really should have bothered the forum search as well: We have already seen Major Rauthe's medal bar many years ago! Besides some additional later awards, it does not feature Baden's 1902 BRJM - so this ribbon bar cannot be his!

Dave Danner seems to have been right here all the time with his suggestion the bar might probably be Willy Kreßmann's... I really cannot imagine there was someone else with exact this combination.

I have no trouble with this combination, but please keep in mind the "combatant" 1914 Iron Cross was awarded to any recipient who crossed the German borders, while the Frontkämpferkreuz required a relative proximity to the actual front line. I actually think most such combinations we see today were not necessarily won at home, but rather in the Etappe.

That's a nice one and I would have probably obtained it as well! Henning Volle, on the basis of Neal O'Connor's researches, gives only 1654 awards(!) on the "red ribbon" für daheim erworbenes Verdienst... and to be honest, I cannot even remember the last single mounted one I've seen!

Source: Volle, Henning. Stiftungen und Erneuerungen von deutschen Orden und Ehrenzeichen im Ersten Weltkrieg. Schriftenreihe der Deutschen Gesellschaft für Ordenskunde e. V. (DGO), Konstanz am Bodensee 2014. See p. 68.

On 27/01/2022 at 08:49, saschaw said:

(...) but I have seen several of these over the time (...)

By chance, another one popped up on German ebay recently, and again it's silvered only and on a blue and white ribbon that resembles much (or actually is) the Bavarian long service awards' ribbon. After all, a long service ribbon is a better fit than one that resembles a bravery award's...

Nothing wrong with this Kriegerverdienstmedaille! It's probably one awarded during the "Great War", and I'm actually not aware of any noteworthy fakes of these. Might you confuse them with the bigger medal, the Militär-Ehrenzeichen II. Klasse? Those are indeed faked, but only for a relatively short period of time...

I checked the Königlich Preußische Ordens-Liste from 1895, and there's still no Red Eagle Order, but he received an additional star to his Royal Crown Order 2nd class cross on March 14th, 1889 (see p. 705).

1 hour ago, v.Perlet said:

Or is Mattweis just another name for Silver?

Actually, the Prussian(!) „Abzeichen für Verwundete“ was instituted by Wilhelm II. on March 3rd, 1918 in three grades: schwarz, mattweiß and mattgelb. You will not find any official document that mentions a badge in Silber or Gold until 1939. These terms, probably used colloquially before, were only used for the 1939 reinstitution.

See Hinze, Dietmar: Das preußische Verwundetenabzeichen von 1918. Anmerkungen zu seiner Stiftung vor 100 Jahren. In: Orden und Ehrenzeichen. Das Magazin für Freude der Phaleristik. Heft 114 vom April 2018. p. 62–80.

Feel free to use my photos anytime, spolei! I generally don't mind them being "stolen" for educational, non-commercial purposes, and especially here on GMIC.

This has been the nicest of two or three of this type that I had so far. All came as singles, and unfortunately without any provenience.