jeffskea

Unfortunately haven't had a chance to do much esearch as we are in the process of moving but look forward to settling in soon and start digging again :)

Thanks Peter, that is great I will see what I can find Jeff

Hi Gunney, Thanks very much for confirming the dates of WO1 Finn's CD's and welcome as well I did a bit of research on his service number as well and the "C" designator seems to indicate he joined in Military District 3 - Eastern Ontario and South Western Quebec, and I believe he may have been born in Montreal.

Thanks for your input Mervyn, that is interesting how easily the gilding could wear off. I will go back to the lists and see what I can find. Already I've narrowed down 7 possible RAF OBE-BS combos, I feel strongly it is an Air Force recipient but will re-check the Army recipients. Jeff

I am back with my collection and wanted to take a closer look at this group to confirm a few things: Firstly as I mentioned previously about the Bronze Star varieties, I can confirm mine is an Army (or USAAF) version as it is thinner and has the split loop suspension. Secondly, I was reading about the differences between MBE's and OBE's and apparently they are exactly the same except for the gilding. As an OBE would make more sense with this particular group I took a closer look at the MBE and may be convinced it is actually an Officer. If you look very carefully there is a hint of gold colour around the inset surfaces, how easy would it be for the gilding to wear off that much? Finally I notice as well the medals do seem to have had quite a bit of wear and the Legion of Honour's enameling suffered the most, the ribbons also are fairly faded so I suppose it could be possible. Any opinions on the picture would be very appreciated. Jeff

A small correction to my last he would have served between 1954-end of 1960 without NDSM - so just over six years service..cutting it close but still plausible.

Hello, sorry to stir the pot again but I agree with Irish Gunner's initial assessment and would just like to add my opinion that it is not a fake and quite plausible... First and foremost, the National Defense Service Medal was authorized for service only between June 1950- July 1954 during the Korean era. The next qualifying service period for the NDSM began Jan 1961 so this person could have easily served sometime between the end of 1954 up to 1963 before the Air Force Good Conduct Medal started to be issued. The Army of Occupation Medal was most definitely earned in Europe as opposed to Asia where this recipient could have served in Germany and Austria up to 1955 to qualify, or West Berlin for which personnel were eligible up to 1990. The two-knotted bronze bar does indicate a second award of six years, so with only one AF Longevity that would give him up to seven years service probably beginning late '54 or '55. A small but interesting ribbon bar reflecting early Cold War service. Jeff

Hi Paul, here is the group, not the best photo, up close it appears the ribbons are new replacements and it has been court mounted in a non-naval style but still a very attractive looking set. He would have been serving on the Bulolo for the Japanese surrender in Singapore so makes for an interesting set. Jeff

Hello, Would anyone have access to the Seedies Naval Roll to determine which ship P/JX 125305 AB Charles Frederick Savage was on at the time of receiving his Mention-In-Dispatches? He is listed in the London Gazette 1 Jan 1943. I have his complete medal set which comprises the: - Naval General Service Medal with Palestine clasp - 1939-45 Star - Atlantic Star - Burma Star - War Medal with MID - RN LS&GC (AB- HMS Bulolo) Any help would be very appreciated, thanks. Jeff

Hello, I am almost finished compiling my research together for Engineman Thorn, digging for information on each shore base he was posted to and each vessel he served on has been very interesting as his War service began in August 1939 and carried on right to the end and further until November 1945 with it seems a considerable time at sea. I just had one question regarding a remark on his RNR service record and I wonder if anyone else has encountered the same. In the remarks column there are two lines, one says "1st G.C.B. granted 26th August 1942" which I understand is his Good Conduct Badge. The other line states, "C.S.B. 1 due but not issued." Would anyone have an idea what this is referring to? Thank you. Jeff

Good day, this may be helpful as I had researched an East & West Africa Medal with Witu 1890 Clasp to an AB aboard HMS Cossack and found the complete Despatches for the Witu operation, dated Tuesday 6th January, 1891 - over 30 pages downloaded free on the London Gazette website detailing the entire Witu Operation, pretty fascinating and describes in detail specific skirmishes and operations vessels/boat crews/shore parties were involved in, wounded, etc., even mentions things like the zareba - thornbush perimeter around camps to protect from lions - a pretty vivid and first hand account. The despatches are written by the Commander-in-Chief of East Indies Squadron, Edmund Robert Fremantle, CB, CMG, and his flag ship was the Boadicea it appears. http://www.london-gazette.co.uk (issue# 26122 pg 71 or type in "Vitu" in the search and will bring it up) I also accessed the entire Medal roll (through Ancestry) for the Witu 1890 clasp and it is a very complete list of all individuals who participated in the operation including which vessel they served on. There is also a special note regarding who was actually entitled to receive the medal - only those involved in boat operations or who went ashore, so interesting that not everyone who served aboard the ships would have been eligible. Sorry I do not have the medal roll list with me to look up the RM concerned here. Jeff

Thanks Larry that is a great site with lots of information, just noticed on the statistics chart that the 1939 Liberty Medal 1st Class (Vm 1) was awarded 11,590 times and the 1941 Medal 70,611 times. Jeff

Hello, I just picked up this nice pair of Finnish medals I thought I'd share: Order of Liberty Medal 1st Class - 1939 - appears to be the silvered bronze variety. Winter War Medal with Swords and Rannikkopuolustus Clasp A nice attractive and simple looking pair to a Finnish soldier who saw service at the front and was recognized. Does anyone have any estimates at how many 1939 1st Class Medals were awarded? Thanks. Jeff

Good day, just came across an interesting angle to look into regarding the Bronze Star to help determine potential branch of service issued from. USN/USMC Bronze Stars issued during the Second World War had thicker planchets and solid loop suspension rings whereas US Army were thinner and had a split loop ring generally. The finishes on each are visibly different as well and the superimposed star and rays on the obverse appear more defined in my opinion on the thinner army style. Sadly I am away from my collection at the moment but based off the small pictures at the beginning of the thread and from my memory, mine appears to be the thinner version. Once I can look at it closely again I will check the suspension loop to confirm. While I understand that it was probably possible for one branch of a foreign military, such as army, to award a decoration to a different branch of service, such as the Royal Navy, I would think in most cases it was army to army, navy-navy, air force-air force, etc. From my research of the WO 373 US & French awards to the British Army, I feel fairly certain that my recipient was not one of the 900+ British Army BS recipients, though it is still quite possible he may have slipped through with so many recipients to search. If the BS is indeed an Army variation, and I can confirm 100% my recipient was not listed among the 989 British Army recipients, I can still look towards it being a USAAF award to one of the 175 British air force recipients potentially. If it happens to be the thicker naval version then I will have to go back to the London Gazette and check through the 27 British naval recipients. Is anyone aware if the Admiralty and Air Ministry have something similiar to the War Office 373 foreign awards to British? I have yet to come across anything at the National Archives. Anyhow another approach to investigate, one more step in this long process of deduction ps. here is a link to the interesting article on Bronze Star variations if anyone is interested: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/74317-bronze-star-with-thicker-planchet/ Jeff

Hi Mervyn, the U.S. DSC was awarded to Commonwealth soldiers a few times during the Second World War, very low numbers I believe it is around 20 or so, I will double check WO 373, I know there were a handful to Canadians, 8 I believe or so. Capt (N) Frederick Thorton Peters, VC, DSO, DSC & Bar, was a Canadian recipient of the US DSC for the Torch Landings, his VC postumous. Other recipients were junior ranking combat arms for operations in Italy and NW Europe. Extremely rare to see in a medal group I would say but still awarded to non-US personnel up to Vietnam - Col Carne, VC, DSO, Glosters - Korea, and Kieth Payne, VC - Vietnam are a few examples. Jeff

Hello Mervyn, In my opinion I would rank the Bronze Star (with "V" for valour) with the Mention in Dispatches. A Bronze Star for meritorious service would be roughly equivalent to a King's/Queen's Commendation for Brave Conduct or Valuable Services (if awarded in a time of War) I would say. During the Second World War, every single US Army Soldier that earned the Combat Infantryman Badge or Combat Medical Badge was entitled to the Bronze Star (without "V" interestingly enough, although many would receive additional awards of the BS signified by an oakleaf cluster and often with a "V") I would say even today it is a fairly common US award to Commonwealth personnel for service in Afghanistan or Iraq, and still quite prestigious for a foreigner to receive, especially when awarded with a "V" which you don't see too often to non-US personnel. I believe as well that while the BS for meritorious service is awarded quite often to U.S. personnel today, the Bronze Star with "V" is highly respected and still quite prestigious to receive. The U.S. Silver Star would rank with the Military Cross/Military Medal, and the Distinguished Service Cross would be equivalent to the Distinguished Service Order/Distinguished Conduct Medal in my opinion. To the best of my knowledge the Silver Star and DSC have not been awarded to a Commonwealth soldier since Vietnam (to Australians/NZ) and Korea (British and other nations). Jeff

Hi Lilo I stand corrected thanks for clearing those details up, I should have referenced the London Gazette to see he was awarded both the Military Cross and Leopold during WWI. I agree that the picture doesn't clearly show the black enamel very well but indeed it was not a CdeG. Glad you were able to find more information on the Earl's interesting combination of awards. Jeff

Hi Lilo, sorry I have been away during the holidays, I have not seen any award of the French CdeG to the Earl of Athlone during the Second World War in WO 373. I am quite certain he did not receive one as he is not wearing one in his National Gallery portrait in 1953. The last three foreign decorations he is wearing that I can see are the Officer of the Legion of Honour, WWI French CdeG, and what appears to be the WWI Belgian CdeG (although wikipedia states he received the Belgian Military Cross) While Govenor General of Canada during the Second World War it appears he also received the Grand Cordon of the Belgian Order of Leopold, however I'm not aware of any other decorations he received during that time. If he did receive any more I'm confident they would all be high level orders from allied nations due to his status as GG. Hope this is of some help. Jeff

Thanks as well Rudi for identifying the maker on the BMVK3X. I noticed as well the ribbon is sewn in a sort of diamond shape (the top of the ribbon has each corner folded at an angle and sewn, rather than straight across), has anyone encountered this style before? Jeff

Thanks again for identifying the recipient Christer, this has been a great intro to Imperial German medals!

Wow that is great! Here is a better picture of the award document, does it confirm the information you found?

Hi Christer, that would be excellent! I will see if I can have someone translate it as the cursive is difficult to make out, I will also try and post a larger image of the document if it may be easier to read. Thanks, Jeff

Thanks very much for the info, I can't seem to find any maker's mark on the swords anywhere but will continuing looking this topic and compare with other examples.

Hello, This is my first Imperial German medal that came with a nice award document from 1917 which appears to be awarded to an Anton Heinzl on 17 Sept 1917, along with two photographs (of two different soldiers). I understand it is the MKV3wX, just wondering if someone could tell me the maker? Also I'm just starting to learn about Imperial German awards, is it possible this decoration could be a Bavarian soldier's sole entitlement for the War or would he have had to receive the EK2 as well? Any information or comments is very appreciated, thanks. Jeff

Going back to the search for the recipient of my medal group, in Oct 1944, General Juin of the French Army offered a total of 39 Legions of Honour to the 21st Army Group, including RN and RAF attachments, and 50 Croix de Guerres per division eqaulling 1335 to cover the period from D-Day to Sept 1944. The army interpretated the offer to mean the Legions would be go to officers Maj Gen and above (including Field Marshal Montgomery) and the CdeGs to junior officers and other ranks. The total numbers of officers and ORs in the 21st Army Group give a glimpse as to how little the LdeH was awarded during the War: Officers: over 16,000 ORs: over 300,000 Interestingly, of the 39 LdeH's, a very small portion was alotted to staff officers who did not neccessarily serve in France during that period, 4 were to go to planners supporting 21 AG and 1 to a staff officer with SHAEF. I was able to cancel out these Army awards for this period, however I do not have the access to the 7 x RN and 8 x RAF recipients and have a feeling this group may fall under one of these branches after having gone through the entire record of French awards to the British Army with not one match for a MBE-LdeH(O)-BS combo.