IMPERIAL QUEST

Hi all,

With respect to all posters...I am still convinced this is a cut out version. I am no photo expert, but the granular appearance/pattern in the "cut out" areas of the badge clearly match in consistency with the outer areas surrounding the badge. Finely polishing minute high areas of a badge is in my mind far less probable than simply having it cut out.

Compare the areas of the EK I with the areas behind the Pilot Badge...totally different. The center of the EK I is either blued or painted, much like dark tarnish so one would expect the areas of the PB to be much darker and more evenly consistent in appearance if it were tarnished.

Any how, just one man's opinion....simply defending my observations.

I am obsessed, I admit it.

Jeez...I'm gonna start calling you Ahab!

Is that good or bad...

I know this is very crude, but it gives you a good visual of why I truly believe it is a cutout Pilot's Badge. The RPB has three voided areas, and the PB has 4 voided areas....

Compare this to Post #12 (without colored areas).

I wholly agree. These guys are wearing them on their uniforms in an area that would see the material folding and moving. And those long crosses would be especially vulnerable to breaking. The piece is great and I actually perfer stamped pilot badges to the 2 piece ones. Yeah, I know I go against the crowd, but the stamped badges are the issue pieces from the war years. I like that. [that being said, I wouldn't turn down other pieces, (like the ones I own) I just like the ones that I know are goverment issue and from the war era.]

-Claudius

Claudius,

You are my kind of people... I feel the same about these. I started out collecting the cliche' variations because they were more afordable than the two piece. Now, I to prefer them over the others....but like you - I would not turn a two piece down (if I had the funds on hand). As far as this particular example, it may or may not be a private purchase example (more than likely, I think so). The Bavarian Air Service numbered just over 3,000, but not ALL pilots would have received a badge. So, if such a small number was awarded, it could be more feasible to award silver examples early on.

A long time very experienced collector told me that issue pieces came in differing metal contents. It was based on what they had at the time. I do feel that this example is definitely a war time piece, private or issue. given the astronomical inflation rate that destroyed the German economy after the war, buying this badge would have probably been the equivalent of buying a house or two at the time. The other reason I think wartime is the fact that it has the square mark on what is accepted as period-type hardware.

If I start seeing Jesus in the picture someone come and get me...

Wait...........I think I DO see him.....................in the Pilot's seat

Not trying to rattle you...just conversating...

As far as the voided areas being shadows, I find it srange that the "shadows" don't creep into the area of the central object. I personally find it much more plausible that he actually had his badge voided, why is this viewed as such an impossibility? The fact of the matter is, the guy was not entitled nor eligible to wear the RPB...sorry, I just am not following the logic.

If you look at the picture below, you can see that the upper lines of the wings on the Retired Pilot's Badge do not match, even at a differing angle...they actually angle in the opposite direction.

Hi Luftmensch,

The Retired Pilot's Badge was not intended for short periods of non-flying status, it was created for Pilots that no longer flew at all.

I dunno, now...all the angles look more and more like this bird to me...

Hi all,

Thanks for the photos. Well... if it were a Retired Pilot Badge, it has some extra metal...right where the tail of the Taube would be..

Please correct me if I am wrong, but Fritz would have never been entitled to wear the RPB as he was killed in action.

Hello Imperial Quest;

To add to the body of discussion here; I too have a stamped pilot badge, with this high quality and with this square mark on on the pin. However, mine is a Prussian badge. I have also looked for information regarding it and couldn't find if it was a mm or silver mark. I don't have any photos of it to share -yet.

Now then... you asked "there isn't anything that jumps out as bad". I will have the temerity to point out something, and then I will get my head down for the responses. The cross at the top. It's kind of ...ummmm...short, for a Bav. crown??? What do others that have stamped Bav. badges think?

Hi Claudius,

I'll see if I can find the photos of my Prussian cliche' sqaure marked example and post them.

I am glad you pointed the cross out, I was waiting for someone to ask. and I hope others will post examples here. As far as the height, I am speculating that it was broken during wear, and re-soldered by a jeweler. The green verdegris (sp?) could be a reaction between the solder, and the silver. Thinking in this manner, this makes me think that this is indeed what happened. Originally, there would have been more to the vertical lower portion of the cross. These are very small, and incredibly fragile. I don't see how pilots managed to not break their cross given the position that they were worn.

I think it adds character, and whispers "I have been up there" to me... Thanks for the reply, and the keen eye.

Nice badge! I like it!!

I think the mark is a silver mark and not a maker's mark, but that is just my guess.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. I keep going back and forth on my opinion of what exactly it is. This week... I am thinking mm because of something I saw on the Aerodrome forum. It was a Bavarian solid example in brass/tomback which was silver plated...the kicker - there was a square mark on the reverse above the hinge. The photos were really not good enough to form a good/bad opinion, but I thought it was interesting to see on a non silver badge (a first for me).

Someone has got to have this book! OK... If some has the book or can get it an provide me with the information I need then I will give them one of my H&S CDs.

http://www.gwpda.org/

Look under VII The Maritime War

Hi Paul,

I wish I did have it, whatever you needed would be available to you for nothing. I did find the link above though...maybe it has what you are looking for.

i have a similarly marked, stunning 1914 EK 1

which is a private purchase, vaulted, and one

of the finest EK 1's i have.

you have a beautiful badge there!

joe

Thanks Joe, agree totally with the statement about quality. This firm seems to have used the exact same hinge, pin, and catch on their aviation badges, and Ek 1's as well. I was once told by a jeweler that this mark was a very old silver mark...but I am not convinced any longer about that. The very fact that the square mark appears on the hardware (pin), and is identical on different badges tends to make me think that it is indeed a mm, not a content mark. I hope we will know for sure one day.

I am really surprised that there have been nearly 120 views, and only two comments (although those two are most appreciated). I guess that is a good sign, and tells me that there isn't anything that jumps out as being "bad" and nothing worthy of critique.

Hi all,

I was scanning through my Time Life volume of "Knights of the Air" last night and saw something very rarely seen. To my eye, Fritz Rumey is wearing a Prussian Pilot Badge with the field above and below the Taube airplane voided/removed.

My first thought was that it was a Retired Pilot's Badge...but he was killed 24 Sept. 1918 - so he would have not had the opportunity to ever wear one.

We don't know this maker, but it's examples are starting to come out of the woodwork. I think it's terrific. Congratulations!

Thanks very much. I cannot tell you how happy I am to have this example. It is my pride and joy...

Last shot...

Taube gear close-up

Catch

Hinge and pin

Obverse cut-out detail

Crown reverse

Cross reverse

Landscape

Taube

Crown

Reverse...