Graf
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Posts posted by Graf
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2 hours ago, Farkas said:
Hi Gents,
i only spotted these fellas just as the auction was ending, got them for £17 + £3 postage.
I didn’t have time to look into them but i hope for £20 it was worth a punt.
5 miniatures with ribbon...
Numbers 3 & 4 caught my eye the most.
I’ll post some pics when i get them but in the meantime... any information or observations are most welcome and appreciated Gents.
cheers
tony 🍻
Very nice mins Tony
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On 24/08/2023 at 04:43, Rusty Greaves said:
Today's addition is a few bits and pieces. First, an example of a District Courts' badge from a past 2016 auction. Second, a portrait of Belgian Judge Maurice de Wée wearing his judicial sash and badge, along with other awards and medals. The final contribution is a business card for an Italian jewelry house in Cairo 7that may be an additional manufacturer of these Mixed Courtsl badges.
Moderate-resolution image of a Mixed Courts badge, probably a gold and silver District Courts emblem. This example is Lot no. 82 from a 13 April, 2016 auction by Beaussant Lefèvre, Auction Histoire & Chevalerie, archived on the Drouot website (https://drouot.com/en/lot/publicShow/5856725). The above image is from the online description of Lot 82. The description states the badge is vermeil (gilt silver), suggesting it is a District Courts badge. Although difficult to distinguish in the above photo, the next image shows the contrast of the vermeil gilt and silver better. The information for Lot no. 82 gives its dimensions as 117 mm x 87 mm. It does not identify any maker's mark, but does describe a boar's head mark on the reverse, which is a French mark for 800 silver minimum fineness, in use between 1838-1962. The workmanship is consistent with that of Froment-Meurice. The tablet calligraphy is most similar to the Froment-Meurice Group 1 examples, especially that illustrated from a 3 June, 2015 auction by Dreweatts & Bloomsbury, (Lot 175), archived on the-saleroom.com website that is shown as the 3rd photo in my post of 6 September, 2021 on this thread. The orientation of the three tuğ elements of the tugra in the Order of Medjidie is rotated slightly clockwise to ~30°-40°, as seen on almost all other Froment-Meurice badges. There is some damage and loss of small parts of the enamel of the central tablet inscription.
Low-resolution image of the same badge, cropped from the illustration from page 15 of the pdf catalog for this 13 April, 2016 auction by Beaussant Lefèvre, Auction (https://www.gazette-drouot.com/telechargement/catalogue?venteId=26010). This is a lower-resolution image that does not show details of the design and execution as well as the first photo in this post. However it does show the vermeil gilding of the rayed embellishment, on the star above the tablet, the tablet (?), on each of the laurel and oak branches with their tughs, possibly some of the fringe of the mantle, and maybe on the Order of Medjidie and its surrounding wreath. Oddly, the damage to the enamel seen in the first photo in this post is not apparent in this photo. Tarnish or loss of the gilt on the rayed embellishment (especially on the uppermost portion) indicates this is the same badge as that shown above. The dark stains on the central tablet seen in the 2nd photo are not as sharply defined in the 1st photo in this post. Those spots in the first photo of this badge are a more diffuse "staining" that may represent the effects of attempts to polish away those darker stains (the cleaning may have removed some of the vermeil on the tablet exposing some of the silver underneath). Could some of this cleaning/polishing be responsible for the damage to the enamel of the tablet inscription?
Above is a high-resolution undated image of the Belgian Judge Maurice de Wée from Les Moments littéraires no. 45 (https://lesmomentslitteraires.fr/fiche auteur/FAde wée.html ). Maurice de Wée was a practicing lawyer in Brussels from 1913-1919 and was the substitute and first substitute for the King's Prosecutor in Belgium from 1919-1924. He was appointed as a judge to the Mixed Court of Mansourah on 22 April, 1924, and made Vice-President of that Court in on 13 November, 1925. De Wée later served as President of the District Court in Mansourah, possibly through 1949. He also may have been made President of the Cairo District Court and a legal advisor to the Appeals Court sometime prior to the closing of the Courts in October 1949. De Wée published several legal studies, including: La compétence des juridictions mixtes en Égypte ("The jurisdiction of mixed jurisdictions in Egypt"), 1926, Librairie des sciences juridiques, Brussels. I have previously included an illustration of Maurice de Wée with the rest of the Mansourah court as the first photo in my post of 21 August, 2021 on this thread. I also included a later portrait painted by fellow jurist Mahmoud Saïd of the same court as the 3rd photo in that same 21 August, 2021 post. Another group portrait of the judges of the Mansourah Court shows a comparatively young de Wée in the photo in my post of 3 September, 2019. De Wée appears even younger in the above portrait, and compared with the other two Court portraits. I think this photo is likely to have been taken close to his initial appointment in 1924. Although he wears a tarboosh, the jacket is not the stambouline coat that is the normal outerwear for Mixed Courts judges when at the bench. This western style jacket was worn by several members of the Mixed Courts probably as an alternative formal non-court attire (note fellow Belgian Firman von den Bosch as Procureur Général [the Chief Prosecutor] in the 4th photo of my post of 29 April, 2019 wearing the same jacket, white vest, white tie and celluloid collar; the Chef Greffer Adib Makaad Bey, especially in the portrait from February 1926 portrait shown as the 14 the image in my post of 6 September, 2019; and the unnamed judge or functionary illustrated as the first two portraits in my post of 6 April, 2020 on this thread; additionally, members of the Indigenous Courts in my post of 6 April, 2020 [see the 10th and 12th photos of that post] often seem to have worn this style jacket). In addition to the monochrome sash and judicial badge, de Wée also wears several medals that appear to be principally Italian and Belgian. He wears the 3rd Class Commander neck badge of the Italian Order of the Crown. I believe that the miniatures represent (from the viewers L to R): the Belgian Order of Leopold (?, Knight?, Civil Division?), the Belgian Civic Decoration of the War with the WWI service ribbon, the Belgian Victory Medal 1914-1918, the Belgian Commemorative Medal of the 1914-1918 War (?), the Belgian Commemorative Medal of the National Committee for Aid and Food (?, likely 3rd Class, silvered bronze), the ItaIian Order of the Crown 3rd Class Commander (with rosette and silver galon), but I am uncertain about the final miniature at the far right with a rosette and possibly a galon.
The last item I am including is the above business card from an Italian jewelry store in Cairo that sold jewelry, silverware, watches and clocks. This comes from a recent eBay auction (https://www.ebay.com/itm/276009039960?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338722076&customid=&toolid=10050). Filli. Fr. & V. Rusciano's card includes a line in the center left that reads: "Experts près le Tribunaux Mixtes" (Experts at [to] the Mixed Courts). Although I have never seen a badge nor case marked with this name, there remain still four badge design styles I have looked at that I cannot yet identify with any particular maker. Filli. Fr & V. Rusciano's could be one of those four manufacturers. The reverse of the card identifies the Register du Commerce Caire No. 10736, and has a note of receipt of payment dated August 27, 1937.
Reverse of the same business card from Filli. Fr. & V. Rusciano with the receipt of payment note, date, and the commercial registration number.
What an excellent stuff
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On 22/08/2023 at 02:03, augustin1813 said:
Russia:
Letter signed by Tsar Alexander Ist in Saint-Petersburg on October 7, 1804, addressed to the captain of the Gardes du Corps of the Preobrajeski regiment, Count Woronzow. "In hommage to the perfect bravery you showed on the 1st and 15th of september of this yearduring the combats of our troops where, being a volunteer, you were often employed in the most dangerous places by rushing yourself with the soldiers on the bayonets and giving to all the example of your fearlessness, I appoint you knight of the Order of Saint Vladimir, 4th degree, for Christians. I send you the insigna wich I order you to put on yourselves ad to wear with the ribbon presribed by the order, being persuaded that it will serve you as an incentive for the continuation of brilliant services. I will remain benevolent towards you".
Superb
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On 19/08/2023 at 15:49, Graf said:
100% sure the enamel is a soft modern one like the one on the picture ( listed on page two on this forum "upgraded' Original Commander of the Order of St Alexander)
I sent an email to the seller See what he will answer I asked hm to do the needle tests on the enamel
The seller responded to my mail He did not check the enamel Insist that the Cross is Original
I cannot argue with him Buyer be Aware Rule apply
Here is a close shot of the central medallion
You can see the dull look of it The old glass enamel has very good transparency and dept
The seller added additional pictures.
i am still not convinced that this is an original piece, although there is a bit of a bidding and he will get good price
Judge for yourselves
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On 19/08/2023 at 16:27, Igor Ostapenko said:
THANK YOU !Welcome Igor It is a pleasure
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On 19/08/2023 at 16:28, Igor Ostapenko said:
Very, very rare box 👍
Yes it is nice sadly gone
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5 hours ago, VtwinVince said:
Yup, that's the grouping I mentioned.
Thank you for listing the link I forgot to mention your name a contributor
Cheers
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This is a link to a PLM Grouping which include typical Wagner made piece
You can compare the difference
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8 hours ago, Daniel Cole said:
Its relevant to the discussion. It doesn't readily pull up because of the accent above the e.
Hi Daniel,
Thank you for the link It is very nice grouping
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2 hours ago, augustin1813 said:
Patent attributin, in the name of Frederic Augustn king of Saxony and Grand Duke of Warsaw, the cross of Knignt of the Virtuti Military to baron Dautencourt, major of the polish lancers of the Imperial Guard. Signed by Poniatowski.
Superb
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2 hours ago, Stogieman said:
At any given moment you can find about half a dozen “PLM’s” on eBay. Many offered as original but I’ve yet to see an awarded piece except in a friend’s collection. People bid like crazy on this junk and every once in a blue moon a really nice original order comes up and sells for a reasonable price. Saw an Albert Order Grand Cross go for $1.2k recently!
I fully agree with you
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4 hours ago, Bretzen said:
Hi Peter,
Hi Peter,
excuse me, but that is a very general statement.
Can you please be more specific, for example with catalogue numbers from the auction?
This might help one or the other buyer (I also bought) to recognise a possible mistake.Kind regards Uwe
Hi Uwe,
Nice to hear from you.
I have to the catalogue
Most of the items were very good and original, however few were , in my opinion questionable
Why is for sure that HH had two 1st Classes Set of the Order for Bravery
One with very nice original boxes was sold. The other one with damaged Cross was not sold ( I saw it in post Auction sale section)
While the Crosses were original both Sets 's stars were not.That is my humble opinion.
You have knowledge and perhaps saw the lots in person. You might have different opinion
The purpose of this forums, in my opinion, is to raise concern for questionable items and through arguments (friendly ones) to agree whether tie items are Original and fakes/copies
All participants put something individual in those arguments. Some of us are with more eager and temperament some are more patient That is the human nature
Kind regards and respect
Graf
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8 hours ago, speedytop said:
chrisnico2022 is well known, and you must read his "Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen für dieses Angebot":
(5) Alle Artikel werden von mir grundsätzlich als Sammler- bzw. Museumsanfertigungen verkauft, da es mir nicht möglich ist das Alter bzw. die Echtheit zu garantieren. Ich bin lediglich Händler und kein vereidigter Gutachter.
(5) All items are sold by me in principle as collectors or museum productions, because it is not possible for me to guarantee the age or authenticity. I am only a dealer and not a sworn appraiser.
And here at the PlM is also important: "Vermutlich zwischen 1919 - 1930 gefertigt." > Probably made between 1919 - 1930, Probably made ... !
Uwe
Hi Uwe,
When I contacted the Seller and questioned the originality of PLM and 1st Class Star of Bulgarian Order for Bravery he replied that they are Original and I am totally wrong I did not like to argue however this PLM is post WW2 made and the Bulgarian Order is recently made one I listed my comments on this one on the Bulgarian Section.
What is disturbing fact is that even reputable sellers and Action Houses close their eyes and knowingly or not knowingly sell questionable items either by claiming that their are original or write a very vague not clear discription
On the other hand some Auction houses if they do not know the originality they write that the item might be a copy
Best Regards
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This is the Seller name
It looks the same guy He sold the same PLM from other eBay account
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Compare the enamel this one is Original
and this is the fake
Interesting news from other Forum This seller is well know for selling fakes on eBay.de --using different accounts
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Thank you
I do not know if he is the same guy This seller is from Belgium i suspect it is one of many accounts
he is a bit arrogant when i questioned the originality of two of his items he stated that Kuenker Actions sold similar
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More pictures I "like the way the aged the new box
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Hi Igor Thank you for posting all those picture
I followed the recent HH Auction. I was very sad that they put on sale few questionable orders. especially some Sets of the Order for Bravery -combination of good and bad items, couple of Questionable 1st Class Stars combined with Original Crosses to make a Set Some sellers will close their eyes to do a sell
It looks like there is a new wave of Bulgarian copies
21 minutes ago, Igor Ostapenko said:
this cross not better 😃
OR THIS from HH
I have this corpus of WALDECK order .
If you have hands and instruments, you can make bulgarian order for bravery
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Too many copies on eBay.de - Germany
told the Seller that this is copy He insists it is Original Wagner
In my Opinion it is new production with" 938'" marks on the loop and the one of the arms
Also marked "W" for Wagner on one of the arms
The PLM is presented in a new badly faked age box
on eBay.de
Item number 314753864020This is one of the many copies on eBay.de claiming to be original
I listed this one because the Seller very bluntly denies it is a copy although the PLM it is not near the Original Wagner made
Well Buyer be Aware Rule apply
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100% sure the enamel is a soft modern one like the one on the picture ( listed on page two on this forum "upgraded' Original Commander of the Order of St Alexander)
I sent an email to the seller See what he will answer I asked hm to do the needle tests on the enamel
The seller responded to my mail He did not check the enamel Insist that the Cross is Original
I cannot argue with him Buyer be Aware Rule apply
Here is a close shot of the central medallion
You can see the dull look of it The old glass enamel has very good transparency and dept
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Fake 1st Class of the Order for Bravery on eBay.de
Although i have to admit it is good copy it has many features that can trick only new collector
- The additional ring is missing
The Central medallion has too many dots
The lion is very bad quality to be first Class The swords were wit wrong handles
The back cap is wrong
The pin although look good, is not a correct
The Cross looks too shiny and new i suspect the enamel is new soft one i do not think that the seller will test it if asked to do so.
The Seller claims that the Order is Original gilded silver I doubt
It is scary that the fakers can produce such good copy
The seller also sells few other fakes including well known PLM supposedly made by Wagner Has the marks however it is not near the quality of the Original -still attracted many bidders
Here is a well known original 1st Class
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7 hours ago, augustin1813 said:
The Netherland.
Order of the Lion.
Civil Guard of Brussel for 1815.
Excellent
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8 hours ago, Kvart said:
The miniature group.
Very nice mini Group Thanks for showing it
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That could be paper weight
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Award documents for Napoleonic era orders and medals.
in Napoleonic Wars
Posted
Excellent