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Graf

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About Graf

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    Full Member

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Australia
  • Interests
    Belgium NationalOrders, Imperial German Iron Cross, French Legion of Honour Order, Italy Order of the Crown.
    Bulgariam Royal Orders and Rare Communist Orders
    Epaulettes -WW1 and earlier era

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  1. Hi New World, Thank you for finding this treasure and listing it It is a 1st Class The owner of this miniatures bar must had been a very high ranking person Amazing Few more mini bars . Not as impressive but very nice You can see the 3rd Class with green enamel on one of them PS. I just read the tread Yes it was an important person
  2. Hi Here is a picture of Lot 53 and the result of this Auction to support the Great Dane information One of the seller, who is selling the Catalog I listed above, was very kind to send me them If this Set is not in this Cataalog The seller stated it does not feature on the back cover of the catalog, then ith might be on the back cover of a book/catalog written by Graf Clenau about Orders from Europe, which was published in 1978/1979- -picture provided Hi Ilieff, do you have any access to the King Simeon Office. They might have information what was ordered Set or a cross. The might have the answer of this question I still support the 922F statement " Gustav Tammann had a 1940's C & M small collar with a much later thin arm badge that he said was Cejalvo work. He had a new star with that collar, most likely a 1960's Rothe. I suspect that some of the Cejalvo Crosses were married to late Rothe Stars like in this picture The cross on the right is typical Cejalvo with the SS Brothers not painted directly to the center
  3. Hi Great Dane, Thank you for the picture Without seeing a color picture I can tell you that this is a real one, also the size is correct 75 x75 mm The cross with the blue enamel discussed on the Forum and sold on eMedals site is much smaller 59 x59 mm
  4. Hi Great Dane, Do you have the Auction Catalog If you have can you list picture of the Order I found one for sale on internet One thing emerges as a fact that Cejalvo Crosses could have been paired with late -postwar Stars to make Sets The question remains who and when those Mystery crosses with blue enamel were made. Whether they are post war Rothe work and someone copied them later on to make those crude sets recently sold on eMedals site.
  5. Those are better pictures of the Medal with the the hinged crown Click to choose fThe medal and the crown look much finer and slimmer The crown is very small There is only one mark on the hinge "VI" and is it engraved The size of the medal is 31 mm wide
  6. Hi Ilieff, Thank you for the great work. That is a big step in the solving the puzzle of this strange Set/Cross of the SS Cyril and Methodius. Obviously the Sets and crosses sold by eMedals and various Auctions and Dealers are not Cejalvo work made by the appointment of HM King Simeon I have couple of questions: Did you see the Cejalvo Sets or Crosses of the Orde.r According to the those not confirmed theories only Crosses were made by this firm. You stated "(though yes, C&M crosses have been minted by them upon appointment of HM The King)". I am following a link which, hopefully, will give me some more light on this question. Second question- you stated " Among the Royal collection at present, there are two such azure orders of different grades." Are those SS Cyril and Methodius azure orders or other orders?
  7. Hi Igor, Do you try to prove the point that your 3rd Class is before 1908 You might be right All we try to do to help you to get to the right conclusion We do not try to diminish your collector achievements. Relax There is not a clear cut exactly when the shift from Princely crown to a Kings Crown took place Here are some examples that could not fit the criteria for the models of the particular period 3rd Class Order of St Alexander- Rothe with unusual crown for a Grand Cross both the cross and the ribbon loop are marked for Rothe The other cross is typical Rothe Commander with green enamel Grand Cross of the Order for Civil Merit with Kings crown, however the cross has the features of the Princely model with hand made leaves
  8. Hi922F, Thank you for the information. I feel very happy that I started this topic. I think we are much more informed then many "Lone wolfs" collectors who are not members of any club. In my opinion the making of such pieces has no not stopped for a moment Only they are not made constantly It takes time to make the dies and the parts. then to try the market how will response to them. I have noticed that many high end WW2 German items such as KC of EK appeared on the market almost of the same time on the sites of Dealers in North America and Europe. All those crosses and high end items were in "mint" conditions Discovered in some places, where they were unnoticed for nearly 70 years and more I have heard that in recent years some Orders were made using de-assembled Originals Those "new Originals" were so good that they are sold as Originals on few Auctions around Europe Well, till the demand is there there will be efforts to satisfy the market. Our role is to get educated and not to get into the traps, however we cannot help those collectors out there who buy such items believing that they are getting the real period pieces
  9. The Set was just sold on eMedals Auction for $ 8521 including the commission fees That is above the prices of similar Sets recently sold in the range of 5-6000 EURO on different Auctions in EUROPE What I found very disturbing is the fact that the seller has listed for the last few days at least 20-25 Collectors Copies of a high Classes of different Orders from Europe It looks like he got them from one source Are they collectors copies??
  10. My latest mini Austrian made with Austrian marks on the ring
  11. Hi Ilieff, Thank you for your input into the discussion. Yes, The Prince Romanoff book was not the most precise one, however for the time was the best one, Also he had access to some of the Orders that not many others had. My main problem with the Set currently on sale is the quality of the items. It was the highest Order and we can assume that the quality has to be the highest. At least the seller, considering the quality of the Set, has described it as "Collectors Copy". My question is are those starnge Sets Collectors copy made at some point to meet the collectors demand or they are fakes made to fool the collectors We can assume that not only Rothe made the Order The firm Zimmerman, in my opinion, was given the tusk to produce few of the 'juwelled" Sets. I hope you can give us more information regarding the King Simeon II Model. Although those Orders were made after the World War Two because he was the King in exile those orders are considered to be genuine and they have collectors value It is believed that the Spanish Firm Cejalvo produced them One of the question, which is open- Did King Simeon II ordered Sets or only Lesser Collar Crosses. Regards
  12. Hi Bayern, Thank you for noticing the typo mistake. It is human. As interesting fact -few months ago Australia Mint printed new 50 Dollars notes It took more then 6 months till a collector discovered a spelling mistake, which was repeated three times in the small print (noticeable only with high magnification) The Australia Mint already printed 400 000 000 notes valued 2 Billions Dollars Because of the high volume this note will be not a "rare" bird The Spoke person for the Mint stated that it will not be removed from circulation, however the next print will be with the correct spelling I know it is with C not S I have seen recent makes of the Cejalvo Firm of mainly Spanish Orders, however the quality is not as good as the items made by the same firm long time ago Regards
  13. Hi I just added this nice medal to my collection and also a very important and interesting Star, which was a part of a group of the British Admiral of a fleet Sir Colin Keppel It is believed it was given to him after the visit of the Sweden Royal family
  14. Hi Toot, Yes, that was the practice on the field, however unless the items come directly from the family with a very strong "Provenance ( better with Photo of the awarded person wearing the converted EK2)' then the door is wide open for speculations. Because the "converted' EK2 to RK demands bigger price it is quite temping for certain people to do so now and claim that it is a period conversion. I even would not trust "reputable" dealers because even they can be tricked or worse knowingly selling such item as "period conversion"
  15. Hi Relentless, Welcome to the Club. Thank you for the nice pictures The other Orders are amazing Especially the Order for Civil merit 1st Class for ladies Set with original box and picture of the awarded person Regarding the SS Cyril and Methodius Cross I agree with you that the Star on the photo with King Boris looks the same, however we have been discussing for a while a strange Set with blue enamel inside the both central medallions -similar to the one in Tallinn Museum Such sets appeared in the market 2-3 years ago One of them was sold in Holland The Set had the same Sash as the one in Tallinn About the same time was reported by one of our members Now a similar Set appeared for sale as "Collectors copy" The good news is the seller provides very detailed pictures and we can compare it with the well known originals All those Sets have also one thing in common the back of the flames on the crosses are not enameled The discussed Sejalvo Cross and supposedly existing Stars are also considered as original, however more modern version. They were ordered by the current Monarch King Simeon in around 1970s. At that time he was living in exile in Spain The official maker of this Order The Austrian firm Rothe made them during the both King Ferdinand and King Boris period up till the end of WW2 There were fiw Sets that were made after the war up to the 1960s for the collectors market using the original dies and supposedly left over materials After the firm was closed there is a big question what has happened with the dies for many Orders not only Bulgarian ones Supposedly those post war sets by Rothe had marks that they deffer from the old oriignal to reflect the time they were made, however nobody has had a detailed research of those facts Our tusk is to find out whether those crosses and sets were made more recently using the original dies or made by this purpose new dies i.e words whether those Sets are copies with less little value for the collectors and the market. Once this is identified it is up to the collector to decide whether he/she can have them in their collection and how much they are willing to spend We here on those forums try to establish the truth using our knowledge and the existing facts Regards
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