Graf

Dear Members,

This posting is somehow related to the topic regarding the Gendarmerie.

I collect Documens as well

I have this very nice and rare Certificate - 1937 for Successfull Complition of the Gendarmery Academy

I want to share it with you

Regards

Graf

Hi Kay,

Thank you for the comments.

As far i am concerned the case regarding the word "ORIGINAL" is closed.

You gave me a nice information regarding the EK in one of your earlier mails

It appears that Juncker has used Core made by AWS with frames from his early 1939 EK1 and stamped it with LDO Mark

That means it was made after the LDO was introduced on 1-st of March 1941

I found thsi EK a very unique, because after The LDO wasi ntroduced no vaulted EKs were allowed to be produced

I do not know how mane were made, however i do not believe that was in great numbers

I would like to get more information regarding wheter the EK1 I posted meets the criteria for the EK1 made by C.E. Juncker during WW2 period (size,,frames, parts ,Maker Mark etc etc)

To help the Forum here is additional information

EK1 Size 44x44 mm Weight 21.9 g Core attracts magnet Clear Maker mark L/12 Vaulted Soldering nice a clean

Small traces for rust on the core around the crown The rust is dark brown, therefore old The new rust- faked one is usually light orange colour

The Dealer from Europe who I bought the EK1 from is with very good reputation

The Dealer from Nort America who questioned this EK1, has sold the same one, long time ago, with garantee by Detlev Niemann

Regards

Graf

Hi Uwe,

I noticed a mistake in my text :

because did meet the time criteria

Please read -because did not meet the time criteria

Regards

Graf

Dear Uwe,

Thank you for the mai

I respect your view. Evrybody has the right for their view about originalty.

However if in the Collectors world something is widely accepted as "Original" depite our view we have to accept what is the common view.

It is another story, whether we agree or not. It is our right to defend our view.I hope you will convince one day the collectors community to share your point of view

I can undurstand your point of view, despite the EK1 being made by officially LDO aproved Maker and stamped by the company -it could be considered as so called wearer/replacment copy. because did meet the time criteria -the Period between 1914-1924

On that point I would agree with you.

From Collector's point of view, you can not underestimate this EK1, because we know that LDO had very strict guidelines of aproval, including with the replacment Decorations

From your point of view all top German Dealers/Experts, including Detlev Niemman, have been convincing and saling fakes/copies as originals to the collector's community for years.

I do not like to drug this issue any more

My question to the Forum is, regardless whether the EK is considered as original or a copy by different memebers, whether this EK has all the featurs of 1914 EK1 produced by Carl Eduard Juncker during WW2 period.i.e. whether it is contemporary piece or recent production.

If you have any information and experiise about it , please share with us.

Kind Regards

Graf

.

Dear Members,

Just to let you know that the EK1 with round 3, together with another "rare bird' EK1 Schinkel Type are back where the belong --the dealer.

He bought it back, offcourse not for the same price, I lost a little bit money, however I am happy.

Members Beware the EK1s will be back on the market

Thank you for your information and advice

Kind Regards

Graf

Hi Jum.

Thank you for the advice

The Eks are back whre they belong with the dealer,

Buyers/Mmembers beware they will be back on the market.

Graf

Dear UWE,

I can not understad you . It is very contadictory

In several contemporary catalogues you can find the word Original, e.g. St&L in 1939. But it is not meant as an original piece. It is only the word Original for the differentiation between the original size and the size for a miniature (Miniatur).

You made such a big question about my "ORIGINAL"

At the same time you are defending the word "ORIGINAL" in S&l 1939 Catalogue

Again, no bad feeling just a friendly remark No harm done

We are members of Gentemen's Club

Cheer up

Kind regards

Graf

Dear Members,

I noticed that the topic created a very hot dispute.

Dear Uwe,I am afraid however you took the question very strictly.

I appologize for any hard tension created.

This Club is called Gentelmen's for a reason and we have to try to keep it, by all means, that way.

My question was, regardless whether the EK is considered as original or a copy by different memebers, whether this EK has all the featurs of 1914 EK1 produced by Eduard Carl Juncker during WW2 period.i.e. whether it is contemporary piece or recent production.

As we know the market is floaded with recently made WW2 EK2 because of the incresed interest and prices.

I will not be surprised that more and more top of the range WW1 EKs will appear on the market.

I agree with the members that We need a new tread for the Question What is FAKE and what is ORIGINAL.

I will be not surprised if it turns to be very interesting and extremly hot topic with creative criticism not distructive one.

My Question to UWE is why on the Market are so many Original KC of EK Much more many than were awarded .All are considered as Original. or claimed as such

If you look strictly into this Question the answer is <IT IS ORIGINAL DECORATION ONLY IF OBTAINED DIRECTLY FROM THE RECIPIENT OR HIS FAMILY WITH ALL SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION WITH A VERY STRON PROVENANCE> Otherwise it is just a piece of metal made somewhere at certain time.

Kind Regards

Graf

Hi Uwe,

It is a good pont Thank you.

Yes, the reward period from 1914 to 1924 is corect.

In this particular case "Original" means made by the Maker whose mark is on the EK, not a forgery or fake made in Estonia, China or Pakistan.

It could be said that it is 1914 "genuine reproduction" by Juncker for the WW1 Veterans serving in the Wehrmacht and all other recipients or for display purposes by their families request if the first ones had perished.

This particular one is in the same Group as the other EKs made by WW2 makers like Descler und Sohn and Wilhelm Deumer that are considered as "Original"

Graf

Last one

Graf

One more view

Graf

This is the reverse view

Graf

Dear Members,

I would like to share this 1914 EK1 marked L/12 for Juncker

Because the EK is marked with L/12 I assume it was mace after 1942 when LDo was introduced

I purhesed it from a reputable German Militaria Dealer from Europe as Original and I treat iit as such one.

Recently I showed it to another Dealer in North America, who nearly acussed me that is a Repro.

I have posted picture of it on another Forum, however I will post more detailed ones now.

Please, for your opinion and any info regarding its manifacturing.

Regards

Graf

New World,

Very Nice Congrats!

This is the Document As you see it is in German It is 210 mm x150 mm

I have not seen any Bulgarian Documents for Order of Bravery from this Period.

Regards

Graf

Hi,

Thank you for the comment

I should have said "not very stong provenance".

I did not buy it directly from the family

Back to the topic Picture of King/Tzar Boris III with the 3-rd Class of 1941 It appears he was not a show off guy as his father

Very humble one.

Regards

Graf

Hi,

It is realy very interesting piece

I have few unusual French made Orders (not only Belgium Order of Leopold)

I believe that they could be privately made for French recepients

I have two Leopold French made Orders, however they are from later periods.

One is made by Lamaitre -an Officer Class, the crown is similar as yours

The othe is made by A. Bertrand -Commander Class

However, yours is much more unusual type.

Regards

Graf

Hi,

It is in mine collection

The fact is is that they have never been awarded to Bulgarian soldiers ..only to German Officers and soldiers who were involved in combat in the Balkans.

I think that from the Number and the Name of the Military Unit one can check in the arhives abouth authencity of the Document i.e whether ths data on the Document is made up or it is a real presentation of the Military Unit involved in combat on the Balkans

I will post full picture of the Document tomorrow

Graf

I wonder how many pieces have been minted

I have seen more than 12 over the years on the collectors market

No question that it is one of the rarest Post WW2 award

The marked 14 Karat(583) forGold seems to be the rarest.

I have heard that are single pieces 22 Karat Gold

I have one unmarked ( Ihave never tested it I do not like to damage the surface)

I nearly purhesed marked 583 one couple of years ago

A dealer in Germany had two for sale at the same time?!

Graf

closer view of the Soldier's Cross

Graf

This is another rare "bird'" from this period -The 4-th Class of the Soldier's Cross

It comes with a ribbon with swords and a Document.

Again -No provenance, however nice Set

Graf

Dear members,

I would like to start this topic with a nice 1941 3-rd Class Order for Bravery

In fact since no 1-st and 2-nd Classes were given during this period this Class is considered to be the "1st Class"

I have seen pictures of this Order, from this period, mostly with Bulgarian Officers and more often with King Boris III.

I aquired this 3-rd Class recently with a picture of German General.

I do not know whether this is his Order, because there is no provenance to suppoti it.

However, it is a nice Set anyway.

It ia a real photo with a hand written "Stalingrad".

Regards

Graf

Hi,

This is a closer view of the Police S, Boards

Graf

Hi Guys,

Here is a picture of my Collection of Bulgarian Shoulder Boards

You can see the police ones with the insignia BDP The letters are interlocked. I do not have on my keyboard the Kirilic Alphabet

Regards

Graf

Hi Chris,

I just noticed your comment.

Thank you

I am happy that i shared this EK1 with the other memebers from the club

This will prevent them from buying similar forgeries

Moral of the story is if not sure consult with people more experienced in the field

I am glad that I joined the Club few months ago,

I will advice any collector to do so. If you collect and not sharing with others, you are quite prone to make, sometimes costly, mistakes.

Regards

Graf

Hi Ben,

That fact that The EK was unmarked and the core is Original was that lured me into buying it

The pin looked a little bit different from the books, however i did not pay too much attention on this detail

Also the very new look of the whole EK, a fact which nowdays triggers a question abouth the originality.

I believed that, at that time, if the dealer was registered evrything was OK

Now, when you say that it might be a core from a "butchered' EK2 with a round 3 I realise how easy could be to trick unexperienced novice in the field.

Your opinion was shared with another member on different forum, which i started few days ago, regarding the EK1 with round 3 and EK1 Schinkel Type

Regards

Graf