Graf

Box for 2nd Class for ladies

King Ferdinand period 1908-1918

Box 107 mm long 105 mm wide 22mm high

On 01/01/2023 at 05:18, Stogieman said:

I’ve had a few cased EK2’s over the years, they were all private purchase.

Most of the were private

Very nice item Igor Congrats

Box for 5th Class without a crown from Prince Ferdinand Period Estimate 1900 1908

Made by Rothe Vienna

Box 103 mm long  60 mm wide 18 mm high

Box for 5th Class Knight  with crown

Prince Ferdinand period 1891-1908

Box 112 mm long 65 mm wide 20mm high

No maker mark on the lid inside

 Box for 3rd Class Commander

From Prince Ferdinand period 1891-1908

Box !55 mm long 80 mm wide 30 mm high

Note the "small roof" edge on the lid

Nice photos

BTW The 1st Class  box listed by Bretzen is from the same Prince Ferdinand period 1891-1908

4th Class box -Officer Class

Prince Ferdinand period 1891-1908

Box 130 mm long 65 wide 20 mm high

Note the "small roof" on the lid mentioned by New World

This features appear in all boxes from the 1st  Prince Ferdinand issue 1891-1908 period

Note this "small roof " features even on the 1st Issue of the Order of Military merit "with Glass " enamel

12 hours ago, new world said:

Some early Civil Merit cases had very distinct design - top portion was a bit wider that the sides of the box, almost like roof on the house. I will have to dig out some samples in my collection.   

11 hours ago, new world said:

Some early Civil Merit cases had very distinct design - top portion was a bit wider that the sides of the box, almost like roof on the house. I will have to dig out some samples in my collection.   

Yes I have some of them as well.

It will be nice to show the Decoration (optional) inside as well ..from the relevant period. I have seen few examples when the decoration did not match the box

6th Class box

estimate period 1891 till 1901

Box 130 mm long 65 wide 20 mm high

Interesting print of Prince Ferdinand with Russian uniform and Grand Cross Star of LOH

Hi Illieff,

 Uwe question was about this "mysterious" mark featuring  on the exact spot above the letter "I' on all classes

That made me to look in more details and i came to the conclusion that this is the letter "I kratko" which is after the Letter "I" in the Bulgarian Alphabet This mark, which is more like a "coma" is used above the letter "I kratko", a letter pronounced differently from the letter "I"   Therefore this mark is not a manufacturing defect Perhaps i should have not given an example using the German letters. It cause some confusion

The other interesting fact is the use of the old Bulgarian in the text

I suspect that for both 2nd and 3rd Classes a bronze silvered or gilded was used

The other interesting fact is that in the Documents listed by Uwe and myself the cross is written as "Gold" instead of the appropriate Class I assume the "Gold" was referred to the 1st Class. This cross was given to all senior and junior staff officers from garrisons where Prince Ferdinand had passed through Also to some dignities that has escorted him during this trip. Therefore Uwe"s Document is for an adviser, who escorted the New Prince

Interesting fact that Denkov in his book stated that the 1st Class is also made from base metal,while actually it was made from gilded silver and hall  marked.

I recently came across of 3rd Class that was "upgraded" to 1st Class by painting the relevant parts.

Luckily very bad job, and also the cross was not hall marked.. However can trick novices collectors

I have never seen 2nd and 3rd Classes with 5 clovers, however since in some books it was mention that there is a model with 5 clovers till now i assumed that such issue might have existed  Only late prof. Pavlov stated that only 1st Class had  the 5 clover model

Regards

Graf

Hi Uwe,

Very interesting Questions

First Only the Firm of K F  Rothe  Vienna is known to be the maker of those Crosses

Second I searched the literature and late prof Pavlov mention that 1st Class was known to have two variants Although he have not stated the same for the other two classes it is important to research further.

I have both 2nd and 3rrd Class with 4 clovers only as well

I think I solved the mystery of the mark on the back medallion This is a mark wcih is put above the Bulgarian letter "I' and the letter is pronounced as "I kratko" That is why it appear on all crosses on the back. The word is written in old Bulgarian with this letter on the back. I am sorry I do not have Cyrilic on my PC I hope Iliev can do for me to become more clear One is for sure for me this is not a defect mark.

I checked the Bulgarian Alphabet This is a sign similar to the German "U mlau" if I am correct

Here is the  House Order of Saxony

I think the  design  of the central medallion  on the reverse of the Ferdinand Cross  was "borrowed" from this Order

It has 5 clovers on the reverse Do you know any models or variations with 4 clovers. This might bring a light on the topic

Marks on the ring of 1st Class

Hi Uwe,

 Yes I have two 1st Classes both marked with the same marks like yours

Both have the same small defect on the reverse central medallion like yours

One has 5 clovers the other has 4 clovers on the Coat of arms of Saxony

The one with 4 clovers is considered to be second type Why the number of clovers was reduced is a mystery

I assume the matrix might had been damages damaged and the new one was  made with 4 clovers

Here is the second type with four clovers on the reverse central medallion You can see the small defect as well

The other 1st Class is exactly like yours (the one in the group photo with the Document)

PS Only the 1st Class is marked

The other two classes were made from base metal (gilded or silvered)

I am OK with the listing

On 28/02/2023 at 21:11, Nick said:

Nice collection of medals there. Nice to see the boxes which are much harder to come by. Thanks for sharing. 

I agree

Very interesting Thanks

On 07/04/2018 at 01:57, Brian Wolfe said:

Very nice helmets and especially since they belonged to your father.

Thanks for sharing them with us.

Regards

Brian

 

I agree

12 hours ago, Henry Chance said:

Less about the actual helmets themselves and more about the red lights work on top - I wonder if anyone has any further information about them? This was January 1917.

 

they could have been easy targets

nice

nice

That is true

Hi,

It is very nice document Thank you for sharing

First it is a very low Number  No 90

It is known that 699 1st Class in Gold have been awarded

The Document is correct

The awarded person was Prince Ferdinand adviser The Name is correct . however without the "u' at the end I suspect that at that time adding "u' was Russian influence after the Russian-Turkish War 1877-1878 and/or could be modern style at the time.

Whether this person was  VIP one I am not sure I leave this one to our Bulgarian members to find out

I have the same document but with much higher number No 844 to an Officer

I suspect the numbers are given in order of awarding regardless of the Class

According to sources the very first crosses were given to members of the Royal family Ministers of the Principality of Bulgaria and other dignities

Total awarded Crosses are

1st Class 699

2nd Class1019

3rd Class 475

Total  2193

PS. I noticed that your Document looks lit was more personally addressed ,fact makes me think that the VIPs were presented with such type of Document

Regards

Very nice

On 23/02/2023 at 04:19, Simius Rex said:

 

⁉️

 

Could you please explain why a British battle clasp for the Crimea Medal (issued for the Siege of Sevastopol in 1854-55) is fastened to the ribbon of a French First Empire M1806 Legion of Honor??? 

 

Maybe a French soldier traveled to the future and snatched a British soldier's battle clasp, mounting it on his award ribbon.  Or maybe a clever dealer charged a bunch of money for this LdH because it had a "rare" clasp for a battle that never took place during the Napoleonic Wars.

It is the last point of your question and explanation This LOH was sold on eBay France i did not buy it Just listed as "interesting" item Congrats -very good observation

BTW The seller managed to get very good price from the ignorance of the buyers

6 hours ago, Bretzen said:

And a "certificate of ownership" for the commander of the 4th Mountain Division,

Major General Karl Eglseer.
He received on July 15, 1941 !!! the Order of St. Alexander 2nd class with swords in the center.
The document is issued in Berlin with original signature "Keitel".
But it is not the signature of Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel, but of his brother Bodewin Keitel.

Very nice and rare document Thanks