Graf

That is a very interesting story and a part of Bulgarian History which was not forgiven.

The Box -The stamp on the lid looks to be  Rothe

Hi New World

I did not stated that is a Fake --just said unless enamel tested

The Cross on the Liverpool site is the same as Spink or Norton & Eden

I listed it here to discuss its originality. and to try to find out which period it was made and possible maker

Hi,

This Cross is different from the Kuenker one

The central medallion has the St. brothers painted different and the back ground is not the same plus this dark blue colour of the back medallion.

I do not have the latest Prof. book yet.

The Set in the Tallin Museum looks like the one sold in France few years ago

BTW This Set was sold on the Auction for 5500 EURO plus com.

All points towards Spanish made one unless the enamel is tested.

as Igor noted the price of this Cross was 2995 GBP and it was just sold by Liverpool Medals

This Cross was sold 2 years ago either by Spink or Norton & Eden

Hi

I just noticed that a very strange form Grand Cross of the Order of St Kylil and Methodius was sold by a dealer

It was claimed to be the King Ferdinand Model.

I can not make any conclusions at this stage, however this Cross is a different to any other known  till now.

It is very simplified central medallion The colour of the reverse medallion is blue ???

It has single sided enamel flames  The quality is not as good as the well known Crosses

Note 1  Similar was sold on the 173  Kuenker Auction and was claimed to be made by Spanish firm Cejalvo around 1970 This Cross had much better quality))

Note 2  Few  years ago a Grand Cross Set with a Similar Cross and a 1st Type Star was sold on Auction in France

In my opinion the Star was Good The Set came with a sash

Two years ago the Cross was sold on other Auction in Europe No Star No sash

Now This Cross surfaced again on its own - No Star No sash

I will wait for your comments

Graf

On 9/25/2017 at 01:15, Graf said:

Did you see this 1st Cl;ass Set of the Order of St Alex on Ebay

Republican Model

 

In my Opinion is Fake

1  The Cross has fabricated central medallion -very likely soft enamel as the one you showed  GMIC i do not like the swords attachment as well

2. The Star as a whole is very strange - 85 mm wide - it should be 88 mm

The finish is very bad especially the swords. I do not like those rivets on the back They remind me of the attachment of the fake Military Merit Stars

The central medallion especially the green enamel lacks the fine pattern under the enamel.

The central red enamel plus the Lion -poor quality

The Wreath is also strange pattern

 

What do you think?

The Set is gone from eBay.

I hope no one did buy it

HI ilieff,

Thank you for the photo.It is splendid

It really looks like that this cross was given in rare numbers and only to VIP

The 1st Class Decoration of Prince Ferdinand next to the Bravery Order, luxury model with Diamonds, is the first I ever seen so far. Amazing We keep discovering new facts every day.

I assume that he got the Bravery Order after he became PM, that suggests that the Braver Order could be a once off special order in very limited numbers by Ferdinand and was given to VIPs till runs out.

Hi Yankee,

I have the answer of your questions regarding the rare 4th Class Orders you started the topic 10 years ago.

Both are French made Material Silver very likely maker according to an expert is Firm Kretly Paris

here are pictures you can see very clearly the French mark for Silver "boar head"\

On one of your pictures you posted with the other rare model of this $th Class you can see the same mark on exactly the same place- the mark is upside down but is clear "boar head" (Post #13)

igor Ostapenko was spot on with his guess that is French made

At least the seller admits it is a brass copy with a new ring This item is on eBay for sale.

Hi

I want to share this picture with you

This is the French text translation :

Insignia of the order of bravery that belonged to William II (1859-1941), King of Prussia and emperor of Germany
Silver,gold plated and enamel
Special Model for "heads of the dead" (Backhand)
1914-1918

The Unique Silver Cross is a mystery  I have one and is marked  925 for Silver.

There are samples that are nor marked.

 Late Prince Romanoff showed in his book 1915 model of this Cross There are miniatures of this Cross an also samples that are part of medal bars

if the crosses from 1915 and 1941 are with similar features it is very likely tha the Firmt Zimmerman was their maker.

How rare are both models -- it is very difficult to say. Simply because we are witnessing that more and very interesting "rare birds' are coming on the market.--also the fact that I have already six { one Gold, one Bronze, and four Silver} 1941 Model, which is considered as very rare as well. It is simply matter of time , luck and selective search

Hi 992F,

Thank you for the comment

i did not include the sash because it is a modern made Grand Cross one, which was not mentioned in the listing.

That means  mismatch, however it is the smallest problem of the Set It was bought either from the World (International] Ribbons  site or it is locally made one -more likely the first option - it costs 120 $ This company makes very nice ribbons mainly from modern materials, however they can not make the 1st Class Ribbon due to the high cost to make one and very low demand

Sometimes they get a hold of Original old materials and make very good quality ribbons, nearly exactly like the Originals

BTW the Ribbon loop on the top of this Set is from the same company  you can buy from the company - It is Silver Gilded (not market) i think costs 30 or 40 EURO

Hi,

The quality will not fool an old collector, however it is a trap for the beginner collector

A real First Class Set will never be made so many faults. Not talking about the soft enamel.

Few fakes, with a different quality appeared on the market We have to be very careful if you do not want to depart with our hard earned $$$ for a fake.

I hope some poor collector who is not a member of this Forum can buy it. i suspect the seller from Bulgaria knows very well, because he/she priced the Set not very high plus "make an offer " feature. i bet he/she will accept very low offer for the fake Set

Hi Ilieff,

That you for getting my massage  We did not write any book We did not publish any articles. We are pure collectors who bang our heads to clear some facts that are not in the books.using our knowledge and materials that are in our hands or in books and on internet

Igor is sometime hot headed It is OK with me It shows eagerness to show a point All of us we have different ways to get our points. Thanks God it is just a Forum on Internet Can you imagine what could be if we are locked in a room and try to get our point. There could be a fist fight at some stage Like in many Parliaments around the world.

That is the nature of  Debate -could be very hot sometimes

I have more information regarding the French made Bravery order with French mark for Silver post #33 from 27 of August

It comes from an expert on Bulgarian Orders

"the bravery order with the boar head mark for Silver is very interesting.

BTW Thank you both for the photos

Cheers

Hi

As it is suspected the this Model was one of the first ones.

Also we can speculate that it was given mainly to high ranking Officers, that can explain the lower numbers seen then the standard crosses.we also can speculate that any of the rare Models we see were given only to high ranking Officers and on special ceremonies

Thank you for the comments

Graf

Hi Ilieff,

Good Job Thanks

No 1 is from my collection and it is a silvered brass No any marks evident on the cross

Till now in the literature this Variant was divided on two type with smooth borders {2, 4, 5 and 6) and attached swords and with notched borders and free standing swords {1 and 3)

From your research is evident that it is not possible to define only two types It is also indicative that this variant could have been made by more then one maker. That raises the questions - When exactly it was made What period it could be fitted and  What was the reason this variant to be made

The question about the material of No 2 could be answered only by the collector who has it

Hi Ilieff,

I was looking in your post 23 from 29 of March

The second picture from a collector in Bulgaria - the enamel of the cross look very similar to the enamel of another rare Variation of this Class

I recently managed to get a hold of this Variation and I found out that those crosses were made in France There is a French Mark for Silver "boar head",

This support the theory that these crosses are made by official  companies and makers and are not privately made. Why and when is still mystery.

Best

Graf

Hi ,

I saw it as well.

I did not bid for it because I have similar already. It is a pity that the dealer separated the Set/Bar

The marks are for Silver and Maker mark

Hi igor,

Nice mini

here i my latest mini of the Grand Cross of Civil merit It is very small 12 mm in diameter compared to the 20 mm 1st Class on the left

Thank you.

I was lucky to get few more It looks like the Silver is a little bit easier to find

here is my small collection of the 1941 Soldier Cross

Hi,

I agree with you Not as detailed and not a qood quality as the Ferdinand and Boris Models, however still very rare and very nice.

Thanks for the listing

Hi Vincent

It is  the late second type of C. Buls

If you look my post from 7th of August you can see the 1st type on the left from the Commander Cross  and the 2nd type on the right The Commander Crosses and the Grand Cordon Crosses by Buls always came with the 1st type crown as seen on the picture

Sometime they have marks, however many times they are not marked

Best

Graf

At last i managed to get hold of this rare piece, which is believed  to of the one of the first 4th Class Bravery Order...and i managed to solve one of the mystery- where was made this rare and unique piece- in France

It has a French Silver mark "boar head" I am still looking to find a maker mark -it could be anywhere on the cross .If i find it i will post you a picture.

Graf

At last  I managed to get all versions of the 1941 Soldier Cross Model

Thr Bronze cross does exist. What is the purpose of it --it is still mystery for me.

I have not seen any 1941 Model with crossed ribbons, therefore i still think it was made to represent 3rd Class,

Perhaps, because all 1941 Soldiers Crosses were made in Germany and given only to German Personnel i can speculate that they try to copy/adopt  other similar German awards models  1st Class -Gold 2nd Class Silver and 3rd Class Bronze.

Graf