Graf

Hi Ilieff,

I will try to list few pictures of of the Order sold on the Auction

I did not know this catalogue attracted so much interest I did buy it couple of years ago from a French dealer

Graf

Hi Ilieff,

Thanks. It look one of them is Silver.

I did not have a chance to take pictures, because i was the only visitor at the the time and i have one of the members of the staff with me all the time

Yes although, those books are very nice attempt to cover the Bulgarian decorations and Orders they have some weak points. The same i noticed in the Museum - there are few mixed Sets and missing labels plus few other problems,however very impressive display

The main problems for us collectors are do you have to follow the books and be safe or we have to buy items using our own guts instinct ..plus the additional knowledge we gained over the years.

I found many of the Dealers in Bulgaria not very helpful The Dealers out of Bulgaria do have very basic knowledge.

Some Auction Houses try to provide as much information as possible, which does not mean is correct all the time.

Graf

Hi Ilieff

Yes I have the Catalogue it is from 7th of July 1998 It has pictures of more important Orders in colour and black and white of less important and some do not have pictures.

The Top cover features Prince/King Ferdinand  Pour Le Merite with Oak leave/Oak leaf

I assume if you do a internet research you can buy it "second hand" one

If you have problems i can list the pictures

Best

Graf

Hi Ilieff,

Because there is only one Gold made medal known we assume that all of the existing ones have the same attachment.

The information about the Bulgarian decorations is still growing

For example there is no information about the  weight of Medal for Merit made from different materials as we have for many other decorations from Europe that were very well researched

I assume that the main reason was that this period from 1944 till 1990 when, i assume was not allowed  such a research by the Bulgarian Authorities

Also, because only, as you said only one-off pieces were made from Gold  for handful people it will be impossible to

standardize them.

I can speculate that if any other Gold pieces were made there were probably from the Prince/King Ferdinand period

As i mentioned in other paces in the Forum. there are still many pieces not described in the books  and they are in exclusive private collections

For example I have seen the Medal for Merit -Prince Ferdinand Model with King's Crown in Gold, while at the same time Prof Pavlov sates, in his boo,k that only a Medal in Bronze from this Model is known to him to exist

About the piece in the Military Museum I am not 100% sure - I visited the Museum in September and i might have mingled my information. i had the impression that i saw this particular one -off Gold medal there. It is featured in few  places and books, therefore one can get confused.

If you live in Sofia you can check for us.

Graf

Here are the Three Classes of this particular model. including the unique one in Gold

i just looked also in 173 Kuenker Auction catalogue - there were three pieces sold - in Gold/Gilded, Silver and Bronze

On this Auction one of the biggest collection of Bulgarian decorations, owned by Bulgarian in France, was sold

The Gold/Gilded one was claimed to be Gilded bronze as the one listed on the second picture now with the box

I have not tested mine, however I assume it is the same Gilded bronze, however this gives me the idea to see my local jeweler.

Hi Ilieff,

Thank you for the comments and information

The problem to prove the last sentence could be difficult, because there is no a united opinion what material was used for the Gold/Gilded Class. There is a only one unique Real Gold medal with Diamonds on the ribbon which is in the Museum in Sofia and is shown in few books.

The other information is quite different -some authors claim that the medal is made of Gold, other Silver Gilded and third Group that it is Bronze Gilded. a fact which can open the door for the Fakers

The only proof will be to test the Gilding and to compare with one well know Original Gold/Gilded piece.

However all of them are stating that most of those Gold and/or Gold/Gilded medals were given to non Bulgarians

This particular one comes from a German Dealer with a solid reputation....which in some aspects is not 100% proof that is an Original piece, although is some kind of  solid reassurance.

I did buy it at the time. without  knowing that it is a rare bird, because I liked the princely crown and the mounting ribbon..

In general I keep away from any Medals apart from the Serbian - Bulgarian War ones in my collection..

The main reason is that the medals are much easier to be faked the the Orders with complex construction and different materials used.

Graf

Hi ,

I am not too much in to this medal.

However I have only this Gold/Gilded medal of Prince Ferdinand  in my collection.

i assume, it was removed from a Medal Bar of a German Officer.

Graf

Hi Ilief,

All His Russian Orders on the Catalogue are with red ribbon.

If you are KING you decide the colour you likeh

Graf

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the Note

You are correct  -only Ladies

I just listed the list of his Orders sold by Sotherby's in London on 7th of July 1998

Only the Royal Family will know how this Order happened to be among the other ones

Graf

Here are the rest of the Ferdinand Decorations

-Persia, Agdas decoration

-Persia -, Order of the Lion and the Sun Grand Cross Military Division

- Portugal , Military Order of the Tower and the Sword -Grand Cross

- Portugal Order of the Christ and St Benedict of Aviz - Grand Cross Set by da Costa of Lisbon

- Romania, Order of Carol I   - Collar of the Grand Cross by  Paul Telge of Berlin

- Russia,  Order of St. Andrew  Collar of Grand Cross Set  by Albert Keibel of St. Petersburg

- Russia - Order of St Andrew Grand Cross Set

- Russia - Order of St Catherine Grand Cross with Diamonds

-Russia - Order of St Alexander  Nevski  Grand Cross with Diamonds

- Russia - Order of St Alexander Nevski  -Grand Cross Set by Alexander Kleibel of St Petersburg

Russia - Order of the White Eagle - Grand Cross

Russia - Order of St Vladimir Civil Devision Grand Cross Set

Russia- Coronation of Nicholas II  -Moskow 1898  Oficial Silver medals

Russia ,Emirate of Bokhara - Order of the Crown of Bokhara  -Grand Cross Set

Turkey - Order of Nichan Al Imtiaz   Grand Cross Set cirka 1905

Turkey Order of Nichan Al Imtiaz - Pair of Gold and Siver medals named to King Ferdinand

On this Auction also were sold many Bulgarian Decorations owned by King Ferdinand Most of them very rare Luxury Models in Gold and Diamonds

Apart from the Above List  I can add:

- the Belgium Prime Order of Leopold I Military Division Grand Cordon (Cross) Set

Regards

Graf

Hi Ilieff

The Star of Legion of Honour was Silver  made -not Gilded

The Gilded Stars were introduced late after WW2 during the Fifth Republic - the currant one

As many members of the Forum mentioned he was a Ruler and most of the Decorations were the highest Grades

Also being a member of one of the richest Family in Europe with relatives spread as Rulers over the EUrope he must be showered with the Best Decorations available - including many with Diamonds Last bot not least he liked luxury and Luxury decorations, which could be known fact .

Here is the list of his Orders sold by Sotherby's in London on 7th of July 1998

- The Premier Austria Order of the Golden Fleece by Rothe of Vienna -bestowed upon King Ferdinand  in 1911

- Austria -Grand Cross collar of the Royal Hungarian Order of St Stephen by Rothe of Vienna

- Austria - Grand Cross Set of the Hungarian Order of St Stephen with Diamonds

- France Order of St Espirit  -although this Order was seased in 1830 by the French it remained in possession of the House of Bourbon and i assume was given to Ferdinand as a  gift by the one of the current at the time Bourbon family.

- Grand Cross of the Bavaria Prime Order of St Hubert by Rothe of Vienna

- Germany , Prussia Prime Order of Black Eagle  Grand Cross Collar -J. Wagner & Son 0f Berlin

- Germany, Prussia Pour le.Merite in Gold with Gold Oak-leaves bestosed to King Ferdinand on 8th of September 1916 as Generalfeldmarschall  of the Prussian Army

- The Second higest Germany Prussia Order of the red Eagle - Grand Cross Collar

Germany, Saxe-Coburg -Gotha Order of Ernestine, Military Division Grand Cross Collar and Badge by Rothe of Vienna

-  Germany, Saxe-Coburg -Gotha Order of Ernestine, Military Division Grand Cross Set and Badge by Bury & Leonhart of Hanau

Germany, Saxe-Coburg -Gotha Order of Ernestine, Military Division Grand Officer Set and Badge by Bury & Leonhart of Hanau

Germany, Saxe-Coburg -Gotha Order of Ernestine, Military Division Gold Breast Knight Badge by Bury & Leonhart of Hanau

-Great Britain , The Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Civil Division  , Grand Cross Collar in Gold by the Jonhn James  Eddington

-Great Britain , The Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Civil Division  , Grand Cross Set by Garrard & Co

-Hungary Order of Vitez  Breast badge by Semmelwieis of Budapest - Note Thos Order comes only in one Class.

- Italy, Parma,  Order of Constantine of St George  Grand Cross Sash Badge in Gold and Diamonds and Rubies

-Italy Two Sicilies Order of St Janarius Breast Star in Gold and Diamonds and Rubies by Rothe of Vienna

King Ferdinand was nominated as Knight of the Order of St, Janarius in 1891

- Monaco Prime Order of St Charles -Grand Cross Set by Halley of Paris

- Montenegro, Order of DaniloI by Mayer's Sohne of Vienna Grand Cross Set

-Montenegro, Milosh Oblich Medal 1851 Type Montenegro Highest Decoration for Bravery on the field of battle.

Montenegro Golden Jubilee medal -1910  Gold Class

I will list the rest later on due to time restrictions

Here are more pictures of King Ferdinand

- 

Hi Ilieff,

Most of his decorations were sold few years ago in London by his Grandson -King Simeon,

Some of them come for sale from time to time

Here is his French legion of Honour - Grand Cross -the highest Class -It was awarded to him around WW1 period

during the Third French Republic 1870-1940 The Set was on Auction in Gerrnany last year.

Third French Republic (1870 - 1940) - National Order of the Legion of Honour (Ordre national de la Légion d'honneur) - a cased grand cross set
Large sash decoration fashioned in gold with Marianne bust and year cipher "1870" surmounted by a sculpted wreath of leaves. Eagle head punches in the ribbon bow and suspension ring, the latter with lozenge-shaped maker's mark (crowned "V.L" trefoil). Width 69 mm. Weight 70 g. Included is the five-armed breast star of maker "OUIZILLE LEMOINE ... JOAILLIE DE LA LÉGION D'HONNEUR" in Paris with the new address "RUE ST. HONORÉ 356" on the attachment pin (wild boar head punch mark) and the same maker's mark on the clasp as on the cross. Width 91 mm. Weight 86.2 g. Together with the customised rosette sash and velvet appliqué in an award case (privately labelled) with gold-embossed ("R.F.") leather cover. A beautiful, matching orders set in very good condition.

Worn by Tsar Ferdinand I of Bulgaria. Ex Müller Auction 34, Limburg, 23 September 1989, lot 46.

Thank you RUIZ,

The problem is that those who bought the Stars will never find this fact till they decide to sell them and the buyer detects the problem.

There are many stories about that. There are many collectors out there who do not join any forums and keep the items in their collections without knowing that they have fakes or reproductions instead of the real ones

As a novice collector I was one of them.  I had few "rare' Orders and Crosses that i did buy on "bargain' prices

Gradually after obtaining more knowledge, started sharing  experience with other collectors and joining the Forum I found out the truth That is why i started this Thread couple of years ago to help fellow collectors loosing their hard made money for fakes.

Some dealers are honest and will never sell fakes, even they show  pictures from time to time well known fakes with the relevant information

However there are also dealers, on EBay who write articles about fakes but they sale fake themselves Be Aware of those things

Follow your guts experience

Even there was a story of a WW2 German veteran who was the Knight Cross of the Iron Cross winner.  After the war someone managed to swap his Original Cross with a fake. and he kept it till the family decided to sell the KC and it was discovered that it was fake

Graf

On 11/7/2016 at 06:48, ruiz said:

The star is of very poor quality. are there pictures of the back?

Sold for 850 EURO plus Com.

On 11/5/2016 at 16:17, Graf said:

Hi,

 

Just to to as to let you know that three fake Stars will be on Auction in Austria on 11th of November.

I will try to alert the the Auction House Be aware

 

Graf

sold for 850 EURO plus com

sold for 580 EURO plus com

sold 550 EURO plus com

Hi Ruiz

The main problem with the modern fakes is that they do not use the 'old' glass like enamel which is very hard an the transparent type ones have a very nice depth

The modern enamel is soft acrylic type and is  detected by so called "needle ' test

 i do not know who introduced it, however it is very useful test.

You take a fine needle and very gently push  on the the surface =the old enamel will resist while the new "soft one' will let the needle sink and leave a small mark/hole.

Do not push very hard in case that the enamel is Original -you can cause a crack into it

In some fakes certain parts could be replaced on an original orders to increase the value of the order.

For example The Order of St Alexander - The Commander Cross with green enamel could be upgraded to 1st Class by swapping the central medallion - as seen in this thread. It is important to check all the enamel parts

Graf

couple of more minis

Sadly not mine

plus a Badge similar to New World ==again not mine -was sold on Ebay last year

Hi Igor,

if you go to the site of the dealer who sold the fakes there  is reasonable quality of the Order with chain

Look in the sold items section -then go to militaria then pre 1908 Order and stroll through the pages and will see it the click to zoom the pictures.

Graf

Hi Igor,

Which one do you believe  is a fake? If am not mistaken you mean the Orders in the smal pictures, because the rough work and bad details

The close up Order looks OK to me It is the second type Prince Alexander Batemberg of Military Order without the chain

Regards

Graf

Hi Igor,

Can you give your arguments why this is a Fake to be more clear to the memberes of the Forum

Hi Ruiz,

There were no pictures of the reverse of those Stars i contacted the Auction House No reply so far Perhaps their Ego will not allow them to do so

It looks like there is a "new kid on the block "  perhaps in Bulgaria who is making and spreading those new wave of fakes.

Although, there are no pictures on reverse I suspect the pin system is 100% identical for all three Stars as many common features you can see on the front

- first you detected poor quality of the body of the m -they are identical for all of them

- there is a poor details on the dots and the letters

-the identical Ferdinand initial on the middle

- the dark are on the edges of both Military merit Stars

The only thing that can verify them as fakes is the "soft enamel' test which , sadly, we cannot perform

I might be wrong, however when three Stars from the same Class with several common questionable features appear at the same time for sale -it should alarm bell very loudly

BTW long time ago i held in my hands similar Stars and after identifying that they are fakes ( soft enamel was the biggest give away feature)  I returned them to the famous  at that time Faker Victor or Viktor or Karissa.

At that time I did not keep any files of such items as i do now.

Regards

Graf

Hi,

Just to to as to let you know that three fake Stars will be on Auction in Austria on 11th of November.

I will try to alert the the Auction House Be aware

Graf

Hi Egorka,

The Order of St Alexander is one of the most beautiful ones and also could be the most confusing one for a novice collector.

Te Set you presented in My opinion was presented in the early years of King Boris III period

It is 1st Class The Box is an early Boris III emission, however the Star and the Cross are from an earlier period of his father King Ferdinand (more likely left over Sets from this Period as it was a common practice during this period) 

It is so called Kings Model and was awarded from 1908 -1944

To have a better idea

Here are the Classes during this period:

Grand Cross - Star and a Cross  (width 55 mm) with a Red Sash with a rosette- Both Star and a Cross are with White enamel

1st Class - Star with a Cross ( width 50-51 mm) with a Red Sash with black edges -Both Star and a Cross are with Green Enamel

2nd Class -Star and a Cross (width 50-51 mm ) with a red neck ribbon -Both Star and a Cross are with White enamel

3rd Class - Only Cross without Star - Cross (width 50-51 mm) is with a Green enamel with a lion in the central medallion and with a red neck ribbon

4th Class - Cross (width 38-39 mm) with a White enamel and red ribbon Austrian Type triangular ribbon with an Officer rosette for a breast wearing- Cross is Gilded

5th Class  - Cross (width 38-39 mm) with White enamel and red ribbon as 4th Class but not rosette - Cross is Silver not gilded

6th Class - (width 38-39 mm) Cross is entirely made of Silver - No Enamel

The label indicates that the awarded person is an Italian, which is quite understandable since King Boris III has as a wife the daughter of Italian King Victor Emanuel. We can assume that many high ranking persons could have been awarded the highest Bulgarian Orders and Decorations

I hope this will make it a little bit more clear for you

BTW Very nice Set

Hi RUIZ,

For the Bulgarian Orders it will be very difficult, because they are not very well researched as many other decorations from Europe

For example  the German Iron Cross could be identified  without the Maker Mark, simply because it is one of the most researched Decorations and there are many books and experts in the field.

Regarding the Bulgarian Orders the only thing that could be identified is the country of the Maker and in very rare cases the Maker himself, simply by the typical way of making and by typical parts used for making the Decorations

The most difficult period is the Republican one, because many private Bulgarian Makers were involved into the making of the Bulgarian Orders and Decorations

I hope this will be of some help

Here is a little beauty in a very nice box from Second Empire

Interesting fact - The Box is from Kretly, however the button on the back is marked V.L. - Victor Lemoine ?

Here is a French made Officer Class with the "boar head"   French mark for Silver

The box is for the 5th Class, however that the way  the Order came, however it is typical French original box

Notice the typical for the French orders letter "F" on the reverse medallion

..and in my opinion the front central red enamel is different from the enamel of the Austrian made Orders, however this is only my opinion

At last I managed to get the 3rd Class 1st Grade of the 1915 Model to make a pair.

This is the rarer 1915/1916 1st Grade and the 2nd Grade is with so call thick crown mode (the cross is also thicker comparing to the standard cross from this class) -also rare bird

Graf