Graf

Few more pictures of the two 800 EKs

I hope they will bring more information to discuss

Graf

Hi Stogieman,

Thank you for your opinion

Regards

Graf

Hi,

Thank you

Now I have a Set of EK1 and EK2 by Deumer

Graf

Hi Kasle,

It is getting interesting

I agree with your comments

There are few points I would like to explore

The Mark on my Prinzen is Rothe not a Meybauer. Please, check in your files for the Rothe.s marks and compare.

Or look closely the marks on the two EKs presented on this forum

The marks of those makers  look very similar and for a very long time Meybauer Crosses were considered as Rothe and Neffe ones ( Comments made also by Stephen Previtera in his book The Iron Time - page224, Also the hardware of the Prinzen EK1 in the book is different from the one you presented above by yourself)

Although, many makers kept their Pin system very standard, there are many pieces made with different systems

Looking at the Prinzen above, if there was not a maker's mark, one can take it for a Wagner made one.

Regards

Graf

Hi Kasle,

Thank you for the opinion

All Prinzen Size Crosses, I have, bought from   Military Dealers around the World

Regarding the 1st Class Prinzen, I did buy it from Germany 4 years ago.

After your comments , I contacted him and he rejected them. 

i do not want to disclose his name, due to privacy issues..

How sure are you that this Cross is not OK

I respect your opinion, however I do not like to get in dispute with this German Dealer, because I have bought very nice items from him, which are 100 %, Original

Hi Alex,

Thank you for the opinion

I was also inclined towards this maker due to the many features of the Cross

I have also EK2 made during the Third Reich. It is not magnetic and with broad burnished arms

Graf

Hi I have these three 1914 Model EK1 made during the Third Reich Period

One of them is well known Juncker screw back Type -marked l/12 on the bottom arm

The other two are not marked  one is flat type on the middle, the other one is slightly vaulted and has a pin system similar to the WW1  Shinckel Type EK1

Any idea who will be the unmarked EK1 Makers?  What kind of boxes they are given with? The two unmarked EK1 came with the boxes shown on one of the pictures.

How many makers have reproduced the EK1 during Third Reich?

Graf

Hi Kasle,

Thank you for your opinion

It is interesting finding

I have one more so- called Prinzen Cross  1914 -2nd Class in a smaller size 27 mm

It is not marked

What is your opinion

Graf

One more picture

Graf

Hi,

I want to show you two nice 1914 EK1 and EK2 Prinzen Size -both marked 800

The EK1 came in an original box and is also marked with Maker mark for Rothe Vienna

The size of EK1 is 34 x 34 mm and Weight is 11 g

The Ek2 is 35 x 35 mm and Weight is 11.3 g It came with Austrian Type Ribbon

I am not sure who is the maker of the of the EK2 -Rothe???

Regards

Graf

Hi 922F,

Yes I agree that those variants are interesting.

The history of the St Alexander Officer is that it came from France with the Officer  Ribbon for the French Order of Legion of Honour ( as it on the pictures)  I left it as it is. .It might have belonged to a French recipient

The cross looks like the Princely Model with added crown to it

The connection between the crown and the cross is very nice and broad and does not appear that the crown iwas added later on..

The Grand Cross or 1st Class Star came from Germany It is not marked.

It looks like it was borrowed from a French made Princely( Ferdinand) Model with German Type swords

The German dealer stated that it is very likely Godet made, although it is not marked

I managed to trace couple of Sets of Godet made German Orders with the same swords

According to Todor Petrov during Prince Ferdinand period only 5 Foreigners were awarded with the 1st Class with swords in the middle. One of them with Diamonds.

No Bulgarian was awarded this Model during that period

One can speculate that if the recipient of this was German , he could have asked the Firm Godet to make one of those Stars or Sets.

I have evidence that the German makers did not stick very strictly to the design of the Bulgarian Orders

Pictures provided

- the back of the First Class Star

- the Godet made German Order Set

-Miniature of the Order for Bravery by Godet with  German Style swords

Regards

Graf

Hi Paul,

It is not only Godet,

I have  come across of several Original  Bulgarian Orders with errors...not only in the text, however with "wrong "

parts, that are not typical for the particular Bulgarian Orders.

Either they are privately made for the recipients, very likely not-Bulgarian, or those mistakes are due to luck of the correct parts and substituted with part from other Order

here are few examples

- Military merit Order with wrong text and also wrong swords

-  Grand Cross of Order of St Alexander by Godet with swords from a German Order

- French made Order of St Alexander with a Crown which usually is made by French makers for Belgium Orders

Graf

Hi,

Here are two Orders by Sejalvo

Regards

Graf

Merry Christmas and Thank you for the comments

I have those 1st Empire 1/2 size Badges, which in my opinion are hybrids

The first one is Second  Model, however I was told that it is First Model cross with Second Model crown

Size of the badge is  L-33 mm  W - 21 mm

Second Badge is Fourth Model --again I think that the crown looks like Third  Model

Size of the badge is L - 42 mm  W- 28 mm

I agree with Bison, that the Hybrids could be random, however most of them are sequential

Regards

Graf

Thank you for the opinions

Paul made a good point.

It is one of the "Hybrid" Orders, which reflects the dynamics of that times.

By the way the cross is marked with "boar head" on the usual spot at the very bottom (on the obverse)

Regards

Graf

Hi.

I recently added to my collection a nice reduced size of Legion of Honour badge

It has all the features of Second Republic with the exception that it came with a crown.I assume it is a hybrid between two periods, which is relatively  common for the Legion of Honour badges

I can not identify the period of the crown. My guess is a July Monarchy Period. Neither the ribbon ring or the crown are marked..Opinion needed regarding the crown

The size of the Badge is L -45 mm with the crown and W- 29mm

pictures provided of the Badge and also of full size Standard badge from Second Republic Period

Graf

Hi,

I just discovered that one of my Military merit Miniatures by Godet Berlin also has an error in the text It is for Civil Merit

Also the swords are for a German Order

Graf

Hi,

I want to start new topic with this nice Luxury Model for the Order of National Merit.

In my opinion they are much more rare then the luxury Models of legion of Honour

Reason -The French are not as much extravagant as they are during the earliest periods

The Order is gold plated silver with Gold three parts central medallions and three genuine diamondst

The wreath is hand made and chiseled Gold in a nice way to reflect the light.

The cross has two marks on the loop - one is crab the other one is not readable -it is too small

If any members have similar items, please share with us

Regards

Graf

Dear Uwe,

I do not like to argue, however I was referring to the listing of the Document from 1943 with a 1941 Model of 4th Class Order for Bravery in a box, given to Oberzahlmiester

All my Documents related to Soldier's Cross are from 1942

Hi Uwe,

Thank you for the reply.

Only the Document with date 27.10 1941 came with the actual 1941 Model Soldier's Cross

The Document dated 25.10 1942 came as a small Group with 1915 Model Soldier's Cross

The Document datd 22.3.1943 is  for The Officer IV Class 2nd Grade Bravery Order.

I have information tha all the Soldier's Crosses from the Kuenker Auction were bought by Uwe Bretzendorfer.

Before this Auction Uwe had published book in german about the Bulgarian Order for Bravery. In this book/preiskatalog he stated that there are 4 Classes of the 1941 Model of Soldier's Cross. However after the Kuenker Auction he is more convinced that only 3 Classes of the 1941 Model were produced and that the crossed ribbon were not given with this model, However in the early stages of the WW2 till 1942 when the 1915 Model of the Soldier's Cross was awarded with Documents, The Cross might have had 4 Classess

Also in Prof Pavlov book only three Crosses were shown Gold, Silver and Bronze, - none with crossed ribbon, however the author did not specify how many Classes of 1941 Models of the Soldier's Cross did exist...This leavesan open Question.

If this is true it make me believe that the 1941 Model Solder's Cross I listed in this topic  migh"  have been "married" to the Document dated 27.10.1942. On the other hand if the theory for 4 and more classes is true then this Group is genuine.

As you said "Now we can select whtever we want"  ....and look for the answer

Regards

Graf

Thanks for the comment.

Some collectors will keep away from such Orders, since they are different from the well known Standard  pieces.

I do not have this problem as long as i feel that it is not assembled with different parts.

Simply because such pieces are not mentioned in any of the existing literature about Bulgarian Orders it does not mean that they do not have their place in the collecting world.

The reason is why I listed this Order is because i have not seen before such a piece with error.

The Text on the central medallion is correct for the Civil merit Order, however during the making it was wrongly enamelled with the colours of Military merit Order and then was atached to the Military Merit Order.

I am not sure whether it was ever awarded, and if so perhaps was given to non Bulgarian..or perhaps was made by order by non Bulgarian

The reoson i speculated  the Order is French is simply the fact that i recently cmae across of French made Order for Civil Order wich has similar features (Crown form, the specific connetion of the crown to the cross and the shapeof the lion on the back medalllion)

Graf

Hi,

Just to revive this topic with a question regarding the 1941 Model of the Soldier's Cross

According to some experts 1941 Model has 4 Classes as the previous models

However latest information coming from other experts and also indirectly from prof. Pavlov book it is suggested that

- there are only 3 Classes

1st Class Gold

2nd Class Silver and

3rd Class Bronze

It is also suggested that because of the above mentioned information this model wascawarded without crossed ribbons -no need for  them

So far I have not seen any Crosses from this Model with Crossed ribbons including Prof Pavlov book.

I have in my collection three of those crosses two Silver and one Gilded -none came with crossed ribbon

Any comments

Graf

Hi ,

 I recently added to my collection a very unique Bulgarian Order fro Military merit with error

It is a 5th Class with crown

What is unique about this order ie

1,  The Text of the front central medallion is for Civil Merit

2, The enamel of central medallions is different from any standard models

3. the connection of the cross to the crown is very unusual

4, The crown is big and with hand crafted arms on the back

5 The Cross is smaller and slimmer then any standard cross -47 mm wide

In my opinion, after examining the cross, is that it is genuine item with genuine error

- The quality is very good

- The enamel is old hard type

-The patina is very genuine old one

- It is very likely to be French made, although i have not noticed any hallmarks ar makers marks (typical for French made Orders)

I would like to have your opinion.

Regards

Graf

-

Hi Bob,

No need to take more photos.

It is OK

Here is one more contribution

I like luxury Miniatures

Graf

HI Bob,

Merci.

It is lovely Set.

I did not know that this type of box is specific for "Cent Gardes" LOH

I have similar, which came with 1/2 size Officer from Restoration Period

Graf

Hello Bob,

Thank you

Yes it is impossible to collect everything One has to focus only on certain topic.

Because i collect other Orders my LOH Collection is not as impressive as yours

I like the miniatures. I try to find matching ones for my Standard or 1/2 sazes Orders

To be honest i have not seen more advanced as yours before. I suppose that there are other collectors out there with very advanced collections, however not many  are eager to share them

Yes ,the boxes from the periods earlier to 2nd Empire appear to be mainly  custom  made ones.

I suspect the official boxes started form the Second Empire.

I will be curious to see the box for the " Cent Gardes".....if not a problem for you.

I have the  standard boxes for Officer and Knight Classes

Regards

Graf