dond

Thanks for the explanation.

What is the difference between the gold and the silver bands?

The badge doesn't have the Juncker design.  It appears to be based upon the Schott design with the two die flaws on the forward deck/hull.  I would have to lean towards not good.

I don't see anything alarming here other than we have three different reverse setups.

Nice displays.  You are in the wrong profession.  Surely you should work in a museum. 

The barracks look  like the ones I stayed in back in 1978.  And we held formations and marched around too, when we weren't drinking.

Thanks for the reply.  BTW these all look fake to me.  I could make them in my garage.

I guess they look bad and nobody wants to say so.  They are not mine so you will not hurt my feelings.

I guess it looks bad and nobody wants to say so.  It's not mine so you will not hurt my feelings.

How does this one look?

How about these?

I believe this is a pre-war picture taken during a Kaiser maneuver.

Sepp Dietrich's badges were both sold at auction several years back.

Do you have pics of the AWS fake?

OK.  If you ever come across an AWS catalog from the early to mid 1920s I'd be interested in whether they show a KWA as well.

If I find any other info I will let you know.  Anything in particular that you are looking for?

You might find this thread interesting in putting those two badges into the Juncker production timeline:  http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380152&highlight=kampfwagonabzeichen

The first gas attack on the Western Front?

Does this help?

I don't own it anymore. Here is the other one that I owned at one time.

I did further research back in 2013 and posted this on WAF:  

Since I first started it way back when I have found more info on the German Tank Detachments. Three new books published by Tankograd have come out that directly relate to this thread: #1001 Sturmpanzer A7V, #1003 Beute-Tanks Vol1, and #1004 Beute-Tanks Vol 2. Besides extensive pictures of tanks in service with the German Army in WW1 they also have fairly complete records of the combat actions down to which tanks were in which battles on any given day. I hope to use this information to show that the collector myth of” 99 personnel were eligible for the Kampfwagonabzeichen” is just that, a myth. >>

Abts 1-4 were equipped with the German produced A7Vs which had a nominal crew of 18 personnel but in fact usually numbered 21. Each Abteilung (Abt) had 5 tanks for a total of 20 A7Vs. This gives us an initial manpower pool of 90-105 personnel per Abt or 360-420 total pax that could ride into battle in the A7V fleet. >>

ABTs 11-16 were equipped with captured British MK IV/V tanks. The Beute Tank Abts each had 5 tanks, each with a 12 man crew, 60 pax per Abt, or 360 pax total able to ride into battle at a given time. >>

The key to understanding the statistics is this, don’t count the tanks, count the crews. This is especially true with the Beute Tanks. If a tank broke down or was destroyed/lost/abandoned etc… crews would maneuver back to friendly lines and get a new tank assigned to them. Crews from broken tanks could be parceled out to fill the crews of tanks going into battle. As you will see, the crews of the senior Abts would participate in more actions then subsequent tank crews formed later. >>

For this reason Abt 1and Abt 11 have the most crews that could have received the tank badge. Abt 1 has 3 tanks that fought in 4 battles with two fighting in just 2 battles (21x3=63). Abt 11 has 3 (possibly 4) tanks that fought in three or more engagements (3(4)x12=36(48)). In just these two Abts we have a minimum of 99 pax who theoretically could have earned the tank badge. If only it was so easy.>>

The following is a roll up of engagements by Abt:>>

Abt 2 has 2 tanks with 3 or more assaults (2x21=42). >>

Abt 3 has 1 tank with 3 engagements (1x21=21)>>

Abt 4 has 2 tanks with 3 or more assaults (2x21=42). >>

Abt 12 has 3 tanks with 3 or more assaults (3x12=36).>>

Abt 13 has 4 with 3 assaults (4x12=48).>>

Abt 14 has 4 with 3 assaults (4x12=48).>>

Abts 15-16 have none that qualified.>>

It is not surprising that the Beute tank crews outnumber the A7V crews since there were more captured tanks available for service. Immobilized Beute tank crews would be re-equipped much quicker than the A7V crews could ever be. Still, in a perfect world, according to the stats above 348 personnel would be qualified for the badge under the three engagement rule. But the qualification rules also had another way to earn the badge, you merely had to get wounded during an assault. In the Beute tanks alone, 130 personnel qualified this way. There were no figures for the A7Vs as a whole though several officers were mentioned as being wounded. Even given the losses due to sickness, men rotating out to other units, death occurring after the end of the war and prior to the institution of the badge I cannot understand where this “99 award” myth comes from. The other part of the myth is that an officer placed an order for “100 badges.” Why? This was a Commemorative badge and as such was to be a private purchase. So why then would an officer place this order? >>

Here is my theory. Remember that 90-105 Abt manpower figure above? I believe that the German Army kept in its ranks a nucleus of tank veterans. These men were to preserve this capability for the new Weimar Army. Having been on the receiving end of massed tank assaults the Germans were more aware of the potential capabilities than the Allies at that time. I believe these men received their badges from the Army since they were on active duty. The Germans hid a number of banned capabilities using secret rosters and innocent sounding organizational structures so why not this one as well? Unfortunately any records of this were probably in the archives in Potsdam and were blown/burnt to ash in an air raid during WW2. So, old collector myth out, new collector myth in.>>

>> 

Or maybe they just issued them to the wounded guys that were still alive, who knows.>>

Another thought is that the supplier had a minimum requirement to tool up and do a production run, say perhaps a job lot of 100 pieces......

Pics of a badge that came from the estate of an American NCO assigned to the Berlin occupation forces right after the war.

Here are mine.

Thanks guys.

I don't love either of the Schott's.

I see the EK2, HoH, RAO, and A-H MVK with War decoration.  After that a peacetime Saxon Weimar White Falcon Knights Cross? and????  The person is a COL in the 1920s with a 2 device on his shoulder straps.