Stan

Sorry mate Stan

Colin, The badge which I used to start this thread was the one I bought from DN in 2003 for ?1400/ ?975, which is probably the one you refer to. I too have an Army Para Badge which Eric and Prosper have discredited. Luckily for me Prosper sold me the one which is shown in the book so I now have an original one in my collection plus a fake in my "mistakes" box which is getting quite full... Stan

Pete, I totally agree with you. I don't like to see those "curly" 9's. Nice to see 3 identical badges. That one with holes looks very interesting. Stan

This is a photo of my badge which came from a "high-end" "West Coast" dealer. Interestingly, it has the same scar on the right-hand side of the number "5" which the example of Gordon's has. DN shows a similar badge in his fake gallery but without this scar. The pin is magnetic. Stan

Xen, Good point, well presented. I do however feel that the "other" styles are post-war and this view is now shared by the majority of collectors. Of course you could still be proved right. Stan

Eric, IMO Juncker had only two different dies. Well the gentlemen on this forum remain unconvinced. Fortunately another much longer thread (approx 8 pages I believe) exists on another forum. Search under "Commemorative Pilots Badge" and "Fliegererrinerungsabzeichen" will pop up. No dissenters there! That's all from me. Stan

Chris, Chris, I also have Klietmann's book and the size of the swastika arms is the same (2mm). John, you are refering to Niemann's 2nd catalogue. Have you also seen the example shown in Niemanns 1st catalogue p518? - It's the same as mine. Stan

I have now read an observation made by Pieter Verbruggen some years ago on a different forum concerning Juncker Buntmetal Commemorative Pilots Badges. In this report he states that the "First Type badge is a rather flat produced badge with less detail on the chest of the eagle and typical here is a "Dot" representing the eye. Also the eyebrows on this badge have an angled look. This type is shown in Detlev's first book on p518 and in Dr. Doehle's book on p115. No doubt on this badge concerning originality. The Second Type (and I believe of a slightly later date of production) is a little thicker, with a much more detailed eagle chest and wreath. Here you have a more detailed eyebrow without the angle in the curvature. The originality is unquestionable". Stan

So the consensus that we have is that the badges which Eric and John have posted are the early version and the zinc type which Chris has shown is the later version. Well this could be correct but as I have already stated, Doehle clearly shows my type of badge in the 1943 edition of his book. As this badge was first instituted in 1935, I would like to see earlier editions of Doehle's book to establish which design of badge he showed then. My guess is that the version I have shown in Tomback is the original pre-war version which was later produced in zinc (see Christian von Tettinek's article in INFO 63, March 1991). When the type prefered by Eric and John was produced is the mystery and if this is the type we should all feel safest with, why is it omitted from so many reference works? The only books I have see it in is Niemann, McCarthy and Stephan. Forman, Nimmergut, Hartung, Husken and Klietmann shown my style. Interesting! Stan

Eric, I don't know about Chris's badges but the Juncker piece I opened the topic with is buntmetal. Stan

Scott, we've all been there... I bought what I thought was a very nice "HA" marked piece but returned it because the auction has had failed to point out repaired enameling in their very detailed description. I was sad to return it but thank goodness I did. Phew!! Stan

Eric, Take a look at Robert McCarthy's "Collector's Guide Volume III". You'll see both versions side by side on p22. Stan

Eric, Are you aware that Juncker produced two different types of these badges- one with very distinctive fletching of the feathers and one like mine? My type is shown in Doehle's book on page 115 (plus Forman, Klietmann, Nimmergut, Aislby and other books). Pieter Verbruggen describes both types on another forum. Stan

Here are photos of my Retired Pilots Badge by Juncker. Hope you like it. Stan

This is a small badge with a high price tag. Lots of copies around marked "HA" with enamel border in a choice of brown, green and red. This example is what they should look like. Stan

Thanks John for the comments. I looked up the source of the "Cast Wreaths" opinion and it came from Mike Kenny and Frank Heukemes who were commenting on a Juncker Glider badge and stated that "in most cases Juncker wreaths are cast except for earlier Luftwaffe badges". Stan

I bought this badge many years ago and have recently read that these 2nd pattern juncker badges should be un-marked and that the ones as shown are 1960 copies. Well I was certainly collecting during the 1960's and didn't come across too many of these. The rivets certainly look like Juncker. Opinons welcome. Stan

Here are shots of my Glider Pilot Badge mm'd "Juncker". I read somewhere that these Juncker wreaths are cast. Stan

Rich, I know the guy well and was given full return rights so its probably going back. Stan

Rich, Herewith the measurements: Wreath Height = 53.2mm Width = 41.6mm Eagle Width = 65.3mm Swas width = 11.0mm Weight = 31.8mm Stan

Steve, I too saw that dark mark below the eagle's beak but it is just a speck of tarnish. The American guy who sold it to me suggested that I clean it with ammonia suds. I have never heard of those before. Can someone suggest a brand name which is available in the UK? The gold is nicely frosted not matt, but could do with a gentle wash as there are aleady some specks of verdigris on the back of the wreath. Stan

Reverse, Stan

Reverse, Stan

Whilst in Stuttgart last week for the Arms Fair, I picked up this nice early-style Juncker's P/O badge. It seems to have everything going for it but I was concerned to see the file cuts in the swas. The back has the nice file marks where the centre of the hinge was cut out in-situ. Comments welcome. Stan