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Everything posted by filfoster

  1. This photo is of Eddie Rickenbacker's surviving uniform blouse from the First World War. Let's assume it's real and of the period as it does not include his MOH awarded when one of his EIGHT Distinguished service crosses was upgraded to the MOH in 1930. As I understand it, the rules for subsequent awards are as follows: The ribbon itself represents the first award; a bronze oak leaf represents a single subsequent award and a silver oak leaf (here, the look like French Croix de Guerre palm leaves) represents FIVE subsequent awards. Here, Rickenbacker's tailor or someone has really gone outside the box. He wears TWO DSC ribbons (OK, maybe allowable for the many awards of this medal....but...the first ribbon shows a single Bronze leaf and two silver ones. That'd be 12 awards for that first position ribbons, right? The second ribbon bears four silver leaves which would be 21! counting the ribbon itself. So he's showing 33 awards? I'm sure that's not what he intended so.... It's most likely that the photo gives a false view of the colors of the leaves and that they're all bronze, which would then square it except the second ribbon would technically make the total display for 9 awards. I'm guessing that's what's going on. Does anyone have a better picture of this uniform or at least his ribbons? The more I study this photo, the more it seems that the camera has played the trick because the undeniably bronze leaves on the Croix de Guerre also look the same silver-ish shade as the DSC ones. Well, Ok. As Emily Littella (Gilda Radner) used to say on SNL: "Never mind..."
  2. Marcon1: Thanks for this. The batons at Fort Benning and West Point are his Feldmarschallstab and Reichsmarschallstab, respectively, the formal batons. These museums don't have the Reichsmarschall interimstab or his field marshal interimstab. So, we're left wondering where these are now. It seems unlikely that they were destroyed because they were obviously of importance and would either have been taken from him in person or from a place he was known to have been, like Carinhall (blown up at his own order) or one of his apartments. Photos show he had it or perhaps the Reichsmarschallstab with him when he was captured by US troops in Bavaria at the end of the war: (see him holding this 'bag' in the photo): It's in the cloth bag he's carrying unless that's the Reichsmarschallstab, which, given the wide grip he has on it, seems more likely. Still, It's hard to imagine he'd left it behind in Carinhall or wherever he skedaddled from. The most likely event was that an enterprising GI relieved him of it and it's been out of the public eye since. Odds are that it's still out there somewhere, ditto his Feldmarschall interimstab. I hope a few of this forum's members will join us in this fun quest. This artifact is one of the most valuable and significant objects of the Third Reich. Imagine its value today!
  3. Marcon1: Yes, these are the best ones I've found, too but the coloration of the head piece just isn't clear enough. If you had to bet on it, I'd guess it's platinum and not gold but I've seen gold head piece replicas that look pretty convincing. My working opinion until something better surfaces (optimist that I am!) is that it was platinum. (Silver or aluminum would have been too pedestrian for the Reichsmarschall! Consider that the silver-colored accents to his Reichsmarschallstab were platinum). Whereabouts of the original? Would it surprise anyone if some GI's surviving family have this gadangus hanging in the family room or the downstairs 'man cave' with little idea what it is? "Grampa said it was some big shot's. Looks like a band drum major's baton or a little pool cue stick, don't it?"
  4. Bump...no color photos of the stick baton of the highest-ranking military officer in the Third Reich? Hard to believe but obviously very hard to find!!
  5. Thanks for the photo. It's hard to see more than the facing badge. My tentative opinion is that the handle/cap is made of Platinum with gold or platinum (the Iron cross) badges. Still hoping for a color photo with detail.
  6. Bayern: Thank you. I do have the Mollo book and the illustration, as a drawing, even if based on a photo, is inconclusive of the color of the Reichsmarschall Interimsstab baton head. The formal baton, or reichsmarschallstab, for instance, was very different in composition of materials (ivory shaft, vice velvet covered for 'ordinary' marshals or grand admirals, platinum vice silver, etc and the diamonds) compared to the lower rank generalfeldmarschallstab batons, that his Interimsstab for that rank, Riechsmarschall, might have also had significant differences. I am hoping this post will elicit a response with a photo or reference work that gives details of the reichsmarschall Interimsstab on the metals of the headpiece and its badging. The badging itself may be different: was one of the eagles a Reichsmarschall eagle, clutching crossed batons? Surely there must be a color photo, rather than a drawing or painting or contemporary article that describes this. Marcon: Thanks, but no, that's only a 'regular' Heer generalfeldmarschall interimsstab. The higher rank Reichsmarschall interimsstab was different (see my prior post, please).
  7. ....Even the wonderful reference "Mythos Marschallstab" has only two, incomplete black and white photos of it.
  8. Not a reference or color photo anywhere of Goring's Reichsmarschall interimstab. What happened to it? What does it look like, besides the ivory shaft? Is the head gold or platinum or silver or aluminum? What devices are on it? What metal are they? Lots of photos and palaver about the Reichsmarschallstab but nada on the interimstab. Not even a good color photo on Google. Anyone?
  9. Only the Austrian and the Bavarian 1866 medals are real. The others are all available on ebay or from German vendors online. The frame is sheet brass, with bent wire 'pin' and soldered hinge and clasp. That is then covered with wool and the gongs are sewn on at the proper spacing. The ribbon is then sewn on and then a backing of wool is sewn to the reverse. It works, most of the time.
  10. For the good of anyone else trying to duplicate Scheer's decorations at this time, it is possible to cobble up the currently available BVMO officer's cross:
  11. OK. Here's what I think the ribbons are on the photo below. It can be clearly seen that the Bath ribbon is wide, compared to the other ribbons, which I think confirms the misplacement, transposed with the Victorian Order shown in the top left spot. Odd that the old film shows the dark blues as lighter color but the VO, Egypt and Khedive Star ribbons confirm it. Please ignore the bottom photo; it shows my prior work which incorporated a too-wide Khedive star ribbon. The correct ribbons are in the upper photo. Moderator, can you delete the bottom ribbon photo? The edit function doesn't seem to work for that.
  12. OK, here's my reproduction. It's a hot mess - too many gongs on a bar that's as wide as the real one, by my calculations, but I lack the artifice of Leopold's tailor. Anyway, the 1870 ribbon/bars obscure the ribbons for the Iron Cross 2nd, Bavarian 1866 cross and the Mecklenburg-Schwerin 1870 cross. There's probably another Turkish medal I missed as well but this is as close as I can get.
  13. Should 6 and 9 be switched, the Bavarian campaign medal preceding the Prussian one?
  14. My default opinion on Jellicoe's ribbons at this moment is that in the photos taken of him after his promotion to full admiral in August, 1914, his uniform has: top row: Victorian Order + Order of the Bath (mis-placed) + Egypt campaign 2nd row: 3rd China War + Prussian Red Eagle + Khedive Star These ribbons represent several very odd and interesting circumstances. 1. The transposition of the VO and OB ribbons 2. The inclusion of the Prussian Red Eagle ribbon, albeit a relatively high -2nd Class with swords- valor award, of a belligerent nation 3. The absence of the Sea Gallantry medal ribbon, which is a rather rare and prestigious medal. This jacket, in the collection of the UK National Maritime Museum still excludes this ribbon. 4. The inclusion of a Khedive Star ribbon, which is not insignificant but not rare, nor likely to get him free drinks at the bar. It's unlikely anyone at this date knows why these ribbons were worn in this order. I'm not giving up hope but even if the UK National Maritime Museum responds (unlikely), it's a stretch to imagine their expertise can explain this.
  15. JapanX: Yes, this is the same jacket. The Red Eagle ribbon is still there, 2nd row, far right. The top row has the Bath ribbon now preceding the Victorian Order. We just need someone to confirm that these two ribbons were reversed (an error by Jellicoe, his tailor or his valet) in the first photo above. I have sent an email enquiry to the UK National Maritime Museum to see if they know anything about the ribbons in their earlier configuration but so far, no response. If any forum members know anyone there, perhaps you might put in a word?
  16. This jacket still exists in the UK National Maritime Museum collections. I have sent them an inquiry. The jacket today includes ribbons affixed after Jutland, but the color photos clearly show a Prussian Red Eagle ribbon, so that mystery is solved. Why he didn't remove it is still a conundrum. I will share any response I may receive from the museum.
  17. PF: Do you have the Rangliste preceding 31:05:1915 that would show what he was entitled to wear by the date of the Jutland/Skaggerak battle?
  18. Another clue: The top center ribbon is noticeably wider than the other ribbons, which suggests it's a mis-placed Order of the Bath ribbon. Can anyone explain why it would not be in the proper order? Surely his tailor or batman would have known better.
  19. The Sea Gallantry medal might be placed after the Victorian Order but the photos don't show any stripes at all on the top row, number two place ribbon.
  20. Is there any circumstance for wearing the Victorian Order in precedence to the Order of the Bath? For example, relative to higher grade of the respective orders? Won't work here: he was Knight Grand Cross of the Bath in 1915 but Knight Commander of the Victorian Order, 1907. He should have worn the Bath ribbon before the Victorian Order ribbon. There isn't anything that he had, that would properly come between the KCVO and the Egypt campaign medal. So what is that middle ribbon if not an improperly placed Order of the Bath? A ribbon for the Order of St. John would be possible, but I can find no record that he ever received that. And, of course, it sits above the Prussian Red Eagle Order ribbon he ought to have removed! Am I the only one who's fascinated by the weirdness of all this on the uniform of one of the larger actors onstage in the Great War?
  21. OK, I see at the time of Jutland, he had not yet been given the Order of Merit so here is a possible explanation: top row: Victorian Order / Order of the Bath-should be reversed?/Egypt -see the stripes? bottom row: China / Red Eagle / Khedive Star (Looks very light in photo but what else could it be?) What say the experts?
  22. I keep thumping this tub in hope that someone knowledgeable about Jellicoe can explain these ribbons. The top row may be #1: Victorian Order #2: Order of Merit, which would be in the wrong sequence: the Victorian Order came after the Order of Merit in precedence; The bottom row is a complete mystery as it doesn't appear to include at the left or right hand either of his campaign ribbons, for Egypt (two white stripes on blue) or China (red with gold edge stripes), and of course, the weird Prussian Red Eagle ribbon in the center. Any help here, please?
  23. Wish someone would make a good copy of that Military Merit Order officer's cross without the swords and flames. Not much chance of that and it's too difficult to carve the copy up to that configuration unless you have a machine shop.
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