filfoster

OK, I can make out what looks like a Prussian PLM (!) at the neck and a St George at the beginning of the medal bar., and the ubiquitous St. Andrew the First Called breast star.  What else?

Thanks to all on this one!  I have replicated his medal bar on a previous thread. I never would have gotten many of the breast stars. Good work!

OK, I can make out the major neck orders (Grand Cross of the Iron Cross, PLM and the Annunciation Order) and some of the breast stars: Black Eagle and the Annunciation Order and what looks like Order of the Prussian Crown at lower left. What else?

Danke!

On 24/05/2020 at 06:11, GdC26 said:

Chris, 

Here is your answer for Bavaria, I believe (which I think is what you actually were looking for).

On a quick reading, in essence, as of 1873, Achselbänder (which included the Generalsgeflecht denoting rank) only existed for officers of general rank, Achselschnure for adjutants of any rank (with colors denoting differences in rank and station).  

With the abolishment of the general's parade dress in 1910, Achselbänder, although not abolished, practicallyally became redundant (as a practical matter, the Generalsgeflecht could not be worn with epualettes) as generals switched to wearing Achselschnüre.

As an aside I noted that adjutant cords should have closed crown tips, Flügeladjutanten and princely adjutants open crowned tips.

Hope this helps, 

Sandro

What is the book these are from?

GdC26: those are beautiful photos! The uniform is yours?

Does anyone have better photos of the complete shoulder cord/aiguillette of the Prussian generals' parade tunic?

The tentative conclusion is that this combination was not worn by the 'big shots' who held active field commands in WW1, for example, prominent field marshals or colonel generals. Pity, as it's an attractive medal (FJ order).

I used to belong to OMSA but no longer, and my long-time contact there, John Roysten, I believe has sadly passed away. So, I don't think I'll be able to access this trove. Thank you anyway, Wild Card. If anyone can supply a bit of this ribbon, please let me know.  I'd be happy to buy some.

Repro is fine. I've not found any!

Does anyone know of a source for the 15mm size ribbon for the 1866 Koninggratz cross?

Alex K: Thank you for all the help!  I am now set! Best, Phil

Alex K: Yes, thank you. I found the VC device; not sure which is appropriate for the DSO and MC; 'Moons'?

Does anyone have a source for the small devices on British gallantry medal ribbons that denote repeat awards?  I am trying to replicate Maj. James McCudden's ribbons and cannot find a source for these anywhere online.

Ian: Thank you!  Both the Iron Crown and the Franz Joseph look like non-combatant awards...no laurel leaves on the Iron Crown and the FJ is not on the war ribbon. I don't think it would make a difference if they were otherwise, as far as precedence, yes?

I hope we can find some pictures of these. I assume the EKO-R3 would precede the FJO-R?

Austrian. I have read in one source that the Franz Joseph Order was most often awarded for non-combat service, but many officers received decorations for both combat and non-fighting service, so I'm not sure that explains it.

I have searched this forum and online including photos of generals and field marshals of the WW1 era and can't find one example of both worn on a medal bar together. 

From my online survey, it appears that the Order of the Iron Crown and the Franz Joseph Order medals almost never appear on medal bars together. Why?

Bump...anyone find better photos or descriptions?

Deruelle: That is a good photo. Wish it was larger. To me, it's clear he's wearing a device besides rank pips but can't make out if it's the 'Alexander III' cipher or the winged propeller air service device.  He has the Pour le Merite and is evidently wearing a bandage on his scalp, held on by cords under his jaw, behind his ear, so it's after the date of his severe wounding in July, 1917.  Since April of that year, he was a Captain (Rittmeister) so would be wearing two rank stars/pips.

Deruelle: Yes, for the peacetime blue uniform.  Can you find a Sanke portrait of his uniform, with similar detail, with his field gray uniform? I have not been able to, with my searches and books that I have.

Deruelle:  Thank you!

Given his fame and popularity even today among WW1 historians, airplane modelers, etc. it's surprising that accurate depictions of his uniform details are so hard to find. Can't even find his date of promotion from Lieutenant to First Lieutenant (Oberlieutnant). Sometime between 1912 and April 1917 when he made Captain (Rittmeister).

Yes I just found these today on another forum. Your photos are larger and very clear. It's a shame these are black and white pictures, although the field uniform pair appear to be the subdued cords on white underlay and a secondary underlay (red?) which does not show readily on most photos of him. These would have been before his promotions, which raises some issues of the subdued cords on his early uniform, as these may not have been available then?

One reference (Osprey WW1 German Air Service) has a color plate that purports to show Von Richthofen attending a friend's wedding wearing a nicer version of his Uhlanka which is described as having the regimental ciphers, the airservice propeller cipher AND his two rank pips. A lot of devices all crowded on that small 'real estate'. 

Not helpful, really, in trying to discern what he wore on his field uniform. 

I remain hopeful that the answer is out there....

Does anyone really know what style shoulder boards Von Richthofen wore on his uhlanka?  Colorized photos are unreliable and there are no examples of his uniforms that I have found online that are surviving. There's 'what he should have worn' : subdued pattern silver/gray on white underlay  and subdued 'Alexander III' monogram and crown plus rank pips, and the possible pre-war bright silver on white, with gilt ciphers and rank pips.

And...He could have worn the gilt insignia on the subdued boards.

And...he could have swapped out the 'Alexander III' cipher and crown for the winged propeller device, although the photos aren't clear enough to support that.

Can't tell from any sources I've found what he, in fact, wore. Any information on this?