filfoster

Bayern: Thank you. I did. I scrolled through all 66 pages of the generals and found on page 64 a 'grand tenue' with silver sleeve stars; at page 60, a 'petit tenue' with gold sleeve stars. Other examples in the first dozen pages or so were inconclusive but seemed to show silver stars on horizon blue coats.  Mon dieu!

Surely some French members of the forum have access to museum or private collection displays of general officer horizon blue uniforms?

The sleeve stars on the horizon blue tunics above appear to be silver, not gilt. Is this the case?

more Foch silver stars?

I wonder if this was a regulation that was ignored in favor of what French military tailors already had on hand.

Can anyone supply a clear photo of a WW1 French general/marshal's horizon blue uniform with gilt sleeve stars?

I confess I can't find one online after hours of looking, including the three uniforms, one each for Petain, Foch and Joffre at the Invalides. The photos are not conclusive and look like silver to me.

The photo of Foch above, appears to be a tint and therefore, no real evidence. Painted portraits are of little help either, as a nice portrait of Foch shows silver sleeve stars but also incorrect silver tunic buttons.

Thanks Glenn. That's the conundrum. The regs say gilt stars but why do the paintings and the few specimens to be seen on this site and online seem to show silver stars on the horizon blue uniforms? This leads to the question whether silver stars were worn, despite regs. Are there any good museum or private collection displays of these uniforms?  Not many online. Even the few general's horizon blue uniforms in this forum are not clear because the stars have tarnished so much.

A simple question: Were the sleeve stars on WW1 French General's and Marshal's horizon blue uniforms silver or gilt?  The references often say gilt but many/most portraits and colorized photos look silver. There are few photos of displays and these are tarnished so much it's hard to tell. So, which were they?

Yes, but most of the photos in this thread, as I guess most staged photos in that time, were taken away from the front and the soldiers had their 'better' uniforms, if they had them.  I would guess that these badges were sometimes found at the front but more often on the walking out tunics.

Is it correct to generalize that these sleeve badges were worn most often on 'walking out' dress and not in the field?

Bump.  Still no photos of pre-December 1918 'bluse' uniforms with dark green collars.....

I do not understand this post. regarding 'soap and cheese'.  I am not familiar with this phrase. I hope it is not, as the English say....'taking the p--s'.  My apologies if I have given any offense. I am simply trying to learn the details of the photo of Leopold and the uniform details. 

I hope someone can post wartime photos of the 1915 bluse with the WW2 shade dark green collar, rather than the reseda green shade.  I cannot find them.

The photo of Leopold is black and white so it is subjective as to the color but to my eye it looks darker than reseda green and more like the WW2 shade, so likely post-war.

Mackensen and Ludendorff also appear in photos wearing this darker green collar on bluse uniforms but they are post war. 

I have not seen many (any) wartime examples of the 1915 bluse with the dark 'bottle green' collar, instead of the lighter reseda green.  It seems most photos that show the dark green collar are post-war, like the many of Ludendorff wearing a bluse style uniform. His wartime 'bluse' photos show a lighter reseda green collar. Mackensen also, as he appears in his honorary infantry regimental bluse, has the dark green collar in a post war photo. 

Does anyone have better photos -dated in wartime -that show this darker green collar?

It seems more likely this photo of Leopold is post-war.

...and the darker collar cloth to be post-war?

14 hours ago, Bayern said:

Prince Leopold was Chief of the 7 th westfalisches Dragoner Regiment Feldmarschall Prinz Leopold von Bayern on the Pic he is wearing a Field grey uniform . stand and fall collar . they are not buttons visible so one tends to think of a Bluse . If it is the uniform of the Dragoons then the backing of the shoulder cords must be cornflower blue with a inner piping of rosa rot ,rose red ,the regimental distinctive colour of the 7th 

Is the rose red over the cornflower blue the 'peacetime' shoulder board combination and the earlier times underlay would have been only the rose red?

Bayern: Thank you! I think that answers it. Given the darker green collar cloth, this may even be a post-war photo?

...is that a "7" beneath the crossed batons on the epaulette?  7th Dragoons?

OK, what uniform is he wearing here?  It is probably a Prussian uniform, because he gives precedence to his Prussian medals and orders, which he does not when he wears Bavarian uniform. He was an honorary 'chef' or ala suite to some Prussian regiments, a dragoon regiment, I think. Anyway, any ideas what this rig represents? What color would the shoulder cord underlay be?

yes, so awards after that, if named, would reflect that 'HM...'.  The VO chain, given by Edward VII, for example, would have 'HRH ..Prince of Wales'?  As would other medals he had received between his investiture and accession.

The hunt for a better photo continues......

...or HRM The Prince of Wales, depending when he got them?  Would they be named at all?

Yes. So, altogether, George V is wearing some pretty unique stuff, befitting his status as monarch and also making it pretty tough to recreate, at a reasonable cost, for a display.

But the above photos, although ambiguous, seem to show a silver toned headpiece, not a yellow gold.

Please let me know if anyone sees further copy medals for sale.

The bottom color photo above shows what clearly looks like a white metal head. If it's gold, it's white gold, then.

On a further link of recipients, I do see George V, awarded the chain by his father Edward VII.