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    filfoster

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    Posts posted by filfoster

    1. Is there any circumstance for wearing the Victorian Order in precedence to the Order of the Bath? For example, relative to higher grade of the respective orders?  Won't work here: he was Knight Grand Cross of the Bath in 1915 but Knight Commander of the Victorian Order, 1907.

      He should have worn the Bath ribbon before the Victorian Order ribbon. There isn't anything that he had, that would properly come between the KCVO and the Egypt campaign medal. So what is that middle ribbon if not an improperly placed Order of the Bath?  A ribbon for the Order of St. John would be possible, but I can find no record that he ever received that.

      And, of course, it sits above the Prussian Red Eagle Order ribbon he ought to have removed!

      Am I the only one who's fascinated by the weirdness of all this on the uniform of one of the larger actors onstage in the Great War?

    2. OK, I see at the time of Jutland, he had not yet been given the Order of Merit so here is a possible explanation:

      top row:  Victorian Order / Order of the Bath-should be reversed?/Egypt -see the stripes? bottom row: China / Red Eagle / Khedive Star (Looks very light in photo but what else could it be?)MUS-FAPC1114_850.thumb.jpg.2a687ea9ef5d19e38cc407921d4b5c29.jpg

       

      What say the experts?

    3. I keep thumping this tub in hope that someone knowledgeable about Jellicoe can explain these ribbons. The top row may be #1: Victorian Order #2: Order of Merit, which would be in the wrong sequence: the Victorian Order came after the Order of Merit in precedence;

       The bottom row is a complete mystery as it doesn't appear to include at the left or right hand either of his campaign ribbons, for Egypt (two white stripes on blue) or China (red with gold edge stripes), and of course, the weird Prussian Red Eagle ribbon in the center. 

      Any help here, please?

    4. It's possible that Jellicoe is wearing the Red Eagle ribbon. Consider that Robert Massie, in his book, "Castles of Steel" mentions Admiral Cradock using ink to deface a Prussian ribbon rather than removing it, owing to the perceived difficulty. (Did he not have a batman of some sort?). After all, Jellicoe had a great deal to think about besides a particular ribbon on his 'monkey jacket'. 

    5. Dr. Snodgrass Ryan's example is interesting but may not explain Admiral Jellicoe's ribbons in the picture. I don't have any references to show when he was awarded many of his campaign medals and decorations and honors, except the wobbly Wikipedia. Like many senior officers, especially Royal Navy officers, he had some contact with officers of the Kaiserliche Marine, including, once, the Kaiser himself. Many such officers were awarded various degrees of the Red Eagle but it's not likely they continued to wear them after hostilities began. 

      I can't explain the center, lower range ribbon.  Can anyone identify it? 

      According to the Wikipedia, my proposed ribbon bar above is what he should have been wearing. 

    6. I buy these and other nation's replica orders and medals to fill loops on the recreated uniforms I have. My hobby is recreating museum quality replicas of uniforms and movie and TV costumes. This is not a cheap hobby. Even well made replicas require sometimes years finding the correct cloth, tailoring, insignia, buttons (Lots of stories of how hard to find these...let me know ify you have spare British field marshal buttons, won't you?) and MEDALS AND ORDERS.  The difficulty of finding, not to say the cost of these would plague Bill Gates.  Replicas are a convenient and reasonable cost alternative to empty loops.

       

      I don't view it as a 'problem' since even the better-made replicas are distinguishable from the real thing. All the copies I have were sold as copies. I understand the issue of fakes sold as real but becoming knowledgeable about these is part of the pursuit. 

    7. OK, then everyone thinks this order of precedence for Leopold's medal bar is OK?

      1.       St George Order 1889 Jubilee Medal

      2.       Military Max Joseph Order

      3.       BVMO 3rd + swords  (or Knight 1st, old statutes)

      4.       Ludwig Order

      5.       Iron Cross 2nd

      6.       Luitpold 1908 Jubilee Medal (70 Years)

      7..    Mecklenburg-Schwerin 1870 Cross

      8.      1870 Medal + 7 clasps

      9.      Bav 1866 cross

      10.  Prussian Centenary Medal

      11.   Saxon St Henry cross

      12-14.   Hanseatic Crosses Bremen, Hamburg, Lubeck

      15.   Bavarian 40 years service cross

      16.   Austrian 1898 Jubilee Tapferkeit cross

      17.   Austrian 1908 Jubilee medal

      18.   Turkish Lyakut medal

    8. Does this medal look the same as the Military Merit Order 3rd class with swords? I admit I'm not up to speed on some of the nomenclature but this medal looks like the blue enameled cross with the "L" in the central medallion that I call the Bavarian Military Merit Order and I'm not finding references to a 'knight's cross' for this.  I am confused (a sadly common condition now at my age).

      The medal just visible beneath this one looks like a knight's cross for the Max Joseph Order.

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