filfoster

This jacket still exists in the UK National Maritime Museum collections. I have sent them an inquiry. The jacket today includes ribbons affixed after Jutland, but the color photos clearly show a Prussian Red Eagle ribbon, so that mystery is solved. Why he didn't remove it is still a conundrum.

I will share any response I may receive from the museum.

PF:  Do you have the Rangliste preceding 31:05:1915 that would show what he was entitled to wear by the date of the Jutland/Skaggerak battle?

Another clue:  

The top center ribbon is noticeably wider than the other ribbons, which suggests it's a mis-placed Order of the Bath ribbon.

Can anyone explain why it would not be in the proper order?  Surely his tailor or batman would have known better.

The Sea Gallantry medal might be placed after the Victorian Order but the photos don't show any stripes at all on the top row, number two place ribbon.

Is there any circumstance for wearing the Victorian Order in precedence to the Order of the Bath? For example, relative to higher grade of the respective orders?  Won't work here: he was Knight Grand Cross of the Bath in 1915 but Knight Commander of the Victorian Order, 1907.

He should have worn the Bath ribbon before the Victorian Order ribbon. There isn't anything that he had, that would properly come between the KCVO and the Egypt campaign medal. So what is that middle ribbon if not an improperly placed Order of the Bath?  A ribbon for the Order of St. John would be possible, but I can find no record that he ever received that.

And, of course, it sits above the Prussian Red Eagle Order ribbon he ought to have removed!

Am I the only one who's fascinated by the weirdness of all this on the uniform of one of the larger actors onstage in the Great War?

OK, I see at the time of Jutland, he had not yet been given the Order of Merit so here is a possible explanation:

top row:  Victorian Order / Order of the Bath-should be reversed?/Egypt -see the stripes? bottom row: China / Red Eagle / Khedive Star (Looks very light in photo but what else could it be?)

What say the experts?

I keep thumping this tub in hope that someone knowledgeable about Jellicoe can explain these ribbons. The top row may be #1: Victorian Order #2: Order of Merit, which would be in the wrong sequence: the Victorian Order came after the Order of Merit in precedence;

 The bottom row is a complete mystery as it doesn't appear to include at the left or right hand either of his campaign ribbons, for Egypt (two white stripes on blue) or China (red with gold edge stripes), and of course, the weird Prussian Red Eagle ribbon in the center. 

Any help here, please?

Well, OK, I did carve that available copy up as best I could

Wish someone would make a good copy of that  Military Merit Order officer's cross without the swords and flames. Not much chance of that and it's too difficult to carve the copy up to that configuration unless you have a machine shop.

OK: Here's my stab at a replica:

It's possible that Jellicoe is wearing the Red Eagle ribbon. Consider that Robert Massie, in his book, "Castles of Steel" mentions Admiral Cradock using ink to deface a Prussian ribbon rather than removing it, owing to the perceived difficulty. (Did he not have a batman of some sort?). After all, Jellicoe had a great deal to think about besides a particular ribbon on his 'monkey jacket'. 

Dr. Snodgrass Ryan's example is interesting but may not explain Admiral Jellicoe's ribbons in the picture. I don't have any references to show when he was awarded many of his campaign medals and decorations and honors, except the wobbly Wikipedia. Like many senior officers, especially Royal Navy officers, he had some contact with officers of the Kaiserliche Marine, including, once, the Kaiser himself. Many such officers were awarded various degrees of the Red Eagle but it's not likely they continued to wear them after hostilities began. 

I can't explain the center, lower range ribbon.  Can anyone identify it? 

According to the Wikipedia, my proposed ribbon bar above is what he should have been wearing. 

Exactly!  And yet, look at the evidence here:  There isn't any other ribbon like that, in his awards, that looks like this Red Eagle ribbon,  white with red stripes (can only guess at the colors but the pattern is distinctive) and he's a full admiral, which means it's a wartime photo.  

Can anyone explain this?

Besides being bad form, although a bit cheeky, are there regulations requiring the removal of awards from enemy countries?

RE: Center ribbon bottom row; Is it possible he's still wearing the Prussian Red Eagle ribbon, even at this date?  That would be very strange, yet there is no other medal in his 'inventory' at that time (1916) that would look like this.  Any thoughts?

I can't find a good color portrait of him at this early stage of his career; there are some online of him later on, post war.

I am trying to replicate the ribbon array worn here, in this mid-war photo,  around the time of Jutland (Skaggerak or what have you...).

Understood. That medal was depicted on a portrait of Jellicoe as a Captain, not this later photo when he was an admiral.  Any help with this particular medal ribbon array?  

A second question: Is the ribbon, worn on a ribbon bar, for the Order of Merit the very wide ribbon?

What ribbons is he wearing"

Bio says it should be:

Order of the Bath + Order of Merit+ Victorian Order (Correct precedence here?) + Sea Gallantry medal + Egypt Campaign medal + China medal + George V Coronation medal.

Some portraits of him as a Captain also show a Khedive's Star after the China medal.

I buy these and other nation's replica orders and medals to fill loops on the recreated uniforms I have. My hobby is recreating museum quality replicas of uniforms and movie and TV costumes. This is not a cheap hobby. Even well made replicas require sometimes years finding the correct cloth, tailoring, insignia, buttons (Lots of stories of how hard to find these...let me know ify you have spare British field marshal buttons, won't you?) and MEDALS AND ORDERS.  The difficulty of finding, not to say the cost of these would plague Bill Gates.  Replicas are a convenient and reasonable cost alternative to empty loops.

I don't view it as a 'problem' since even the better-made replicas are distinguishable from the real thing. All the copies I have were sold as copies. I understand the issue of fakes sold as real but becoming knowledgeable about these is part of the pursuit. 

OK, then everyone thinks this order of precedence for Leopold's medal bar is OK?

1.       St George Order 1889 Jubilee Medal

2.       Military Max Joseph Order

3.       BVMO 3^rd + swords  (or Knight 1st, old statutes)

4.       Ludwig Order

5.       Iron Cross 2^nd

6.       Luitpold 1908 Jubilee Medal (70 Years)

7..    Mecklenburg-Schwerin 1870 Cross

8.      1870 Medal + 7 clasps

9.      Bav 1866 cross

10.  Prussian Centenary Medal

11.   Saxon St Henry cross

12-14.   Hanseatic Crosses Bremen, Hamburg, Lubeck

15.   Bavarian 40 years service cross

16.   Austrian 1898 Jubilee Tapferkeit cross

17.   Austrian 1908 Jubilee medal

18.   Turkish Lyakut medal

Anyone have any corrections to the precedence last suggested above? Alles korrect?

For the purposes of a repro medal bar, it looks like the 3rd class will do.

Bitte!  I wish to see the difference because I will make a reproduction of this medal bar. I hope there is no significant difference between the old Knight 1 and the later 3rd Class with swords, as only the latter is available as a reproduction.

Pending the resolution of the 3rd place medal, is my stab at the medal bar order in the post above correct?

Does this medal look the same as the Military Merit Order 3rd class with swords? I admit I'm not up to speed on some of the nomenclature but this medal looks like the blue enameled cross with the "L" in the central medallion that I call the Bavarian Military Merit Order and I'm not finding references to a 'knight's cross' for this.  I am confused (a sadly common condition now at my age).

The medal just visible beneath this one looks like a knight's cross for the Max Joseph Order.