filfoster

Sandro  Thanks for this.  It adds much more and I'm satisfied about the Mackensen and Kaiser aiguillettes, General's pattern of gold, triple braid of the gimp and Orris cord.

I have a silver aiguillette that is simpler, only one plaited braid of double cords in the herringbone pattern, not the triple as for generals, and one looped cord.(This is from memory. It's in my bits box and I haven't looked at it for a while)  It's the same gimp and Orris cord material, and has the button hole piece attached, in a silver tape braid. It doesn't appear to have been anything else, e.g., damaged or missing cords. This is what prompted my curiosity about these aiguillettes in general, and, since the Germans seemed to have regulated everything else in such detail, thought it might be an example of a variation of these that would be for a lower ranking officer, among perhaps a lot of variations.

Maybe someday someone (not me, I don't have the resources and particularly value this forum and knowledgeable folks like yourself who are willing to share their expertise and resources.  And to overlook my in-artful expression!) will put together a comprehensive book or article on aiguillettes that includes photos of examples. The resources you included do have a lot of detail.

Thanks again, this helps.  P

Sandro: I apologize for any offense, unintended to be sure, and thank you for your help. I do not read German and envy you for that. This does answer some of my questions about these aiguillettes but not all. 

I will parse through the text of the Verlag book and hope it will address whether there were variations for rank of the wearer or the rank of the personage he was serving. 

I regret that my response came off as 'high handed' !  I'm pretty humble and deservedly so, my wife assures me.

Sandro: Thanks for your reply.  I referenced the Verlag book in my posts and it is a fine reference. It doesn't, however, have much detail on the various styles and the particulars for wearing the aiguillettes. They were for parade yes, but they did, according to most references and many comments on the photos of von Mackensen in particular, reflect status as a general officer-ranked adjutant of the Kaisers. It is my belief that lower-ranking officers wore simpler aiguillettes and the pattern and braid type may have been different depending on both the rank of the adjutant and the rank of the  big shot to whom he was assigned.

I have both silver and gold gimp and Orris braid Imperial Geman aiguillettes that are similar to the ones worn by von Mackensen and the Kaiser. These are gold gimp and Orris.  Mine lack the center ridge of plaiting/braiding, however, and so I believe are for a lower-ranking officer adjutant.

We can hope that someone with some detailed knowledge of Imperial German Army aiguillettes will join our conversation on this topic, which I think is important enough to merit some more information.

No help?  This subject gets little attention in any of the uniform references, even the Verlag books, such as The German Generals, except to show a general's example for parade dress.

I have gold and silver examples in the gimp and Orris that lack the center plaiting but have no idea who wore them or why, except to guess they were for adjutants below general rank.

BTW, if you are trying to reproduce this for a display, you'll find the gimp and Orris cord hard to find and very expensive when you do. The plaiting is different than the British ones that are very similar. These German ones are wider and 'denser' plaiting, managed with the addition of two gold wrapped cords through the plaiting at either side.

I have one made many years ago by Hand & Locke, using cord left over from a job for the Sultan of Brunei, and it cost me body parts then, which I didn't mind, having already had my children.

The Kaiser and von Mackensen were two oft-photographed big shots who wore aiguillettes with their uniforms, to commemorate their appointments as Aides de Camp to Kaiser Willy I, etc.. The plaiting of these aiguillettes is very like the British senior officer aiguillettes, a herringbone style and with a central row of plaits.  I cannot braid so I have no idea what this style is called.  The cords, from my observation, seem to be gimp and Orris.

Does anyone know the rules for these particular aiguillettes, whether the particular style of plaiting and gimp and Orris cording were specified?   Can't find anything in the references I have, on this.

  No luck uploading files!  What gives?

Upload of photo of replica bar failed. Can't delete post!

Waiting for one more medal to post photo of replica medal bar.

Any more help here?

Wasn't von Ribbentrop adopted by some noblewoman to give him his specious 'von'?

As to my original question: regimental uniform for generals was without the extra buttons worn on the general's blue uniform.  Certainly the buttons were the same for field gray as for any other officer.

I make the Red Eagle without swords only because it's not distinct enough with the resolution I'm able to get on enlargement.

The first medal has no clasp.  Any guesses that it's not the 2nd India General Service medal?

I make the order:

1. Maybe India General Service?  No clasp in photo

2. Crimea with Sebastapol clasp

3. China with Pekin and Taku Forts clasps

4. India Mutiny medal with Lucknow and Relief of Lucknow clasps

5. Ashanti medal Coomassie clasp

6. South Africa medal 1879 clasp

7. Egypt medal with Alexandria 11 July clasp

8. Victoria 50th Jubilee medal

9. Kehdive star

10. Turkish Crimean war medal

The French Legion of Honor and Turkish Medidjie medal 5th class mounted above and over the Khedive Star and Turkish Crimea medals, which to my eye, is a very attractive complication and solution for an otherwise unwieldy long bar.

Mike: Thanks!  This is a help.  It doesn't conform exactly to the bar shown above (e.g., no Canada General Service for the Fenien Raid expedition), but both miniature bars together help confirm pretty much all the ones shown in the photo.

I may be wrong about the Canadian medal; it wasn't awarded until 1899 and may not have been included in this bar. The photo, as far as I know, isn't dated. 

NOTE: The picture is probably circa 1895, which explains the missing Canada medal.

Last medal is the Turkish Crimea medal, following the Legion of Honor and the Medjidie?

Thank you!  Can you tell if it's with or without swords?

Can anyone tell what the bottom order breast star is?  Looks like a Prussian Black or Red Eagle to me.

Here is a display of his medals:  What is the first one?  His first posting was to Burma. This doesn't look like anything awarded for that (not sure anything was); is it the 1854 India General Service medal?:

http://thisisalix.blogspot.com/2012/11/curators-national-army-museum.html

Do you have the URL for this?  I have read several online and print bios and can guess at some of his medals but not all.  The Wikipedia bio has a summary that allows guesses for the medals but it's not clear how these are presented on the bar in the photo. I was hoping someone had particular knowledge of this medal bar in the photo.  The first medal is difficult to see.  

Can any one identify the medals here?

Claudius suggests:

If I make the wartime medal bar, even though I can't find a photo, I'd do this:

1.1870 EK2/

2. 25 yr Long Service/ (alternatively, the 1916 War Service cross would also work);

3.1870-71 medal with clasps/

4.Jerusalem medal/

5. Centenary medal

On ‎05‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 11:40, P.F. said:

The second medal is the 1934 Honour Cross.

The second to last medal is the Jerusalem Cross.

The third medal in the photograph (cross) is the Prussian Long Service Cross.

 

I know the Kaiser was, at one time, hot de trot for this decoration. I remember reading somewhere that he insisted on its wearing by many officers to whom it had been awarded. Still an odd medal to choose.

Your suggestion about the #2 medal may be correct; can't tell from the photos I see. 

I enlarged this one and it looks like:

EK2/War Service Cross/ ? / 1870-71 medal with many clasps/ Turkish Osmanie ?/ Centenary

Depending on what the 3rd place medal is, it's still an odd display because of the next to last medal.

Thank you.  It's still a very odd assortment of medals, considering what he could have chosen to wear. And how did he get the Southwest Africa gong?  Accompanying the Kaiser as ADC?

9 minutes ago, Claudius said:

Hello;

If you look closer, I think you will see that #2 is actually the Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz fur kombattanten.  In that light, the precedence rules are properly followed. 

Isn't that medal often smaller?  Could this be a Mecklenburg Military Cross of Merit?  Also a strange choice to wear in preference to others he was entitled to.