filfoster

OK, so we have:

1. Red Eagle 3rd, w/o swords

2. Crown Order 3rd, w/o swords

3. Hohenzollern Houshold Order 3rd w/o swords

4. ?

5. Some Hohenzollern commemorative medal

6. Centenary Medal

Thanks for this photo. I was able to find a gilt brass or bronze one from a German website and a 'Thaler' medal also in silver. Was the reverse of the Thaler similar to the medal also?

This seems to have been either a rare decoration or one seldom worn. (Although the price for a non-gold one would suggest maybe not so rare).

OK, so now we have:

1. EK2 (1870)

2. 25 year long service

3. 1864 Dupel Cross or Alsen? ribbon looks wrong for Duppel

4. 1870 medal, no bars

5. 1866 medal (Konigratz)

6. 1864 War medal

7. Hohenzollern Denkmünze für Kämpfer 1848 - 1849

8. Krönungsmedaille 1861 (Coronation medal: Was this an actual medal or Thaler coin? I have a reference that shows yellow ribbon)

9. Hessen Militär - Verdienstkreuz 1870 / 71

10. Mecklenburg Sschwerin service cross

11. Mecklenburg Strelitz service cross

12 Lippe Militärverdienstmedaille mit gekreuzten Säbeln auf dem Band 1870 / 71

Does anyone have any more information about the 1861 coronation medal?

7. Hohenzollern Denkmünze für Kämpfer 1848 - 1849

8. Krönungsmedaille 1861

9. Hessen Militär - Verdienstkreuz 1870 / 71

11. Mecklenburg - Strelitz Kreuz für Auszeichnung im Kriege 1871

12. Lippe Militärverdienstmedaille mit gekreuzten Säbeln auf dem Band 1870 / 71

I hope I´m right.

Regards

Andreas

So, is #10 the Mecklenburg Schwerin 1871 service cross?

That;s a good photo and I count only 12 medals:

1. EK2 (1870)

2. 25 year long service

3. 1864 Dupel Cross or Alsen? ribbon looks wrong for Duppel

4. 1870 medal, no bars

5. 1866 medal (Konigratz)

6. 1864 War medal

7. ?

8. ?

9. Mecklenburg Sschwerin

10. Mecklenburg Strelitz

11. ?

12.? Some Turkish medal, Imtiaz or somesuch?

Can anyone decipher the medals worn by Field Marshal von Moltke?

I am sure that he was awarded medals and honors by the bushel basketsful by the German States and had virtually every Prussian award except the Oakleaves to his PLM Grand Cross, so the list of his awarded medals isn't necessarily what he actually chose to wear on his bar.

The resolution of the photos I have isn't good enought to identify more than a few.

Here is a portrait and also a photograph of the Kaiser circa 1888.

The fourth medal appears to be on the Hohenzollern House ribbon. What would that be? Something commemorative?

Thanks for these photos. They show good representations of his pre-war medal bars. Not sure what commemorative Hohenzollern medals would have been issued for the appropriate time period. His grandfather wore one for aid in the 1848-49 'troubles', but that would not be appropriate for Willy II.

The second award should be a Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse ohne Schwerter. Ley had both classes.

http://reocities.com/~orion47/DAF.html

Thank you. Since the ribbon is the same, this would not have been clear. I am making a 'display' copy of the medal bar and that is an important distinction. Assuming the 'with swords' was the later award, and the photo is late war, this would be the better medal to use.

The ribbon bar in the photo is as follows:

Perfect. You were posting as I was also and this answer describes the BW photo perfectly. Please accept my thanks!

Second photo down has the clearest photo yet of the ribbon bar, late war (Ley is wearing a 'wartime' RAD uniform).

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=107739

The 'flower war' ribbons are clearly visible and are the usual ones, Anschluss, Sudetenland without the Prague spange, and the West Wall. The new mystery is the ribbon in #2 place.

The order seems to be:

1. EK2 1914

2. ?

3. Hindenburg Cross

4. NSDAP 25

5. NSDAP 15

6. NSDAP 10

7. Anschluss (Austrian annexation 1938)

8. Sudetenland

9. West Wall

The #2 ribbon would be a WW1 valor decoration but I have found no service records for Ley to even guess which.

This page appears to show two WW1 era photos of Ley wearing what appears to be an EK2 ribbon in his buttonhole.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=107739

Does anyone have a list of his earned decorations?

I am guessing about his #1 place award because I cannot confirm that he earned the IK 2 in WWI although as an officer (wears the officer's observer badge) it would be hard for him to have avoided it.

It looks like the Austrian Annexation ribbon to me.

That would be a red ribbon with white/black borders? This one in #7 place looks to have a central stripe. The one in #6 looks like a dark color (although lighter than the #7 ribbon: may be angle/ribbon make/dye difference) and has the lighter border stripes like the Austrian Anschluss ribbon. I am searching for a color photo or better resolution bw one but no luck online yet.

I am sure we are all on the same page with the ribbon types but for anyone looking at this 'new' here's a link to the ribbon patterns: http://www.worldmedals.co.uk/Rib/germrib.htm

This site http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/related/ribbons/regulations/rules_regulations4.htm

shows the German Social Services (Red Cross or 'Volkspflege') decoration or medal, with swords, (assume the 'decoration' is 3rd class, medal 4th class) to be the correct first position medal but the Sudetenland medal is the only medal, by regulation, that can be in the #7 place, between the Anschluss and the West Wall medal ribbons. Weird or wrong?

Mate,

The picture is not the best, could it be other 'flower' war ribbons, going in reverse order I am not sure which ribbon you mean?

Jock

The 'normal' ribbon in the #7 space would be the Sudetenland annexation ribbon, which this is not. The #7 worn, appears to be a dark color with a lighter color centered stripe, like the Eastern Front medal ribbon, which would have been worn after the German Social Services medal, and before the 'Hindenburg Cross'. I am not familiar with wearing these 'flower' war medals in a reverse order.

The picture is small but can be enlarged by left-clicking on it.

Can anyone provide a better picture?

The #7 place medal ribbon looks like the Eastern Front ribbon but that would not be the correct order for the award.

Does anyone know which medals Dr. Ley wore on his medal/ribbon bar? It appears to be:
1. German Social Services 3rd Class with Swords (per 1942 regs);

2. Hindenburg Cross

3. NSDAP 25 year

4. NSDAP 15 year

5. NSDAP 10 year

6. Anschluss 1938 medal

7. ???

8. Westwall

What makes the grouping interesting (to me) is the comparatively rare triple NSDAP awards.

Any help?

yes, Mackenson is wearing his medal bar in this photo, the ribbons over the medallions. I am interested in finding out which medals he wore on this medal bar or earlier medal bars.

I know this photo. But i don't see ribbon bar there. My english is not good but maybe we think different things? Medal bar and ribbon bar. My mistake! But still i haven't seen post-war pictures where he wearing ribbon bar. Ribbon bar = whitout medals, only ribbons.

Can we see them? Resolution is not problem. Just want to see when and where he wearing it.

Here is a link to a picture that shows a long, post war bar but the resolution is not good enough to see detail. It's typical of the photos I've found: too small to be useful.

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_von_Mackensen#mediaviewer/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-L19106,_Doorn,_Beisetzung_Kaiser_Wilhelm_II..jpg

There are post-war photos of him in full-dress where he appears to be wearing his medal bar but the resolution isn't good enough for me to make them out, except for the 1870 EK2.

Any photos/list of medals on his seldom-worn medal bar?

From a Waffen-SS Officer who served in the Balkans ................ the final ribbon is that of the Croatian Order of the Crown of King Zvonimir.

Is that the 'frozen meat order' between the War Merit Cross and the Hindenburg Cross, and the Anschluss on the other side of the Long Service decorations?

Paul, it's my understanding that accumulation time was rendered only for active military service.

Some of the online resources are conflicting on this point.

That is a reasonable supposition-the inclusion of police service represented by the SS long service medal. I posted this same question on the Civil and Party Decorations and Awards forum but no definitive answer there, either.

An interesting question.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an SS/police long service on the same bar.

I may be wrong, but seeing that the police were under the direct command of the SS, would the SS long service award cover any police service for active SS members?
Hopefully Robin will have some insight into the matter.

The inclusion of police service by representation of the SS long service medal is a reasonable suppostion, although the replies to this identical question on the Civil Awards forum seemed to question the appilcability of the award to anyone not serving in the Verfugungstruppe. This criteria would apply to Keppler and Dietrich, who both had pror police service to their SS Verfugungstruppe service. There may be others. Keppler's medal bar is not easy to 'read' from photos. Dietrich wore whatever he wanted, evidently, including the non regulation Bavarian military long service with his SS long service ribbons.

SS generals like Keppler, Demelhuber, and even Dietrich and that butcher Theodor Eicke, had Army service followed by police service, then, for Keppler and Dietrich, SS Verfugungstruppe service before it morphed into the Waffen SS. I have read that the Imperial Army service and police service counted for SS service awards.

Anyway, the point of the thread is whether there are any examples of a police long service medal or ribbon being worn with an SS long service ribbon or medal. I have only seen one example on a Google search and there was not enough background to make it convincing as an original.

Photos of Keppler's ribbon bar are ambiguous as to the long service awards and Dietrich seems to have worn Bavarian and SS long service ribbons..