filfoster

Walter: Here is the ebay listing photo for a supposed real one

Walter: That is a good suggestion that I didn't follow. After thinking on it and seeing a real one listed for 10x that price, I just bought it. Please accept my thanks again for helping to find it! Be well my friend!

Waldo: Vielen Danke. I think this is just a bit too expensive. I'd go 150 Euros but there is no 'best offer' for it yet. I am watching it. Thank you for letting me know. I appreciate it.

Anyone know of a source for a good reproduction of the COLOMBEY-NOUILLY clasp?

..the other likely possibility is that he wore regular red underlay shoulder boards and just had a '7' added. They are somewhat oversized, to my eye, as another point of interest.

These boards are very large and there is no visible underlay. If the boards were regimental, they would have a cornflower blue base and a rose secondary underlay, visible. He had this appointment or right to wear the uniform of the 7th Dragoons pre-war; there are photos of him wearing it at the 1913 'Kaiser' maneuvers. I posit that he's wearing the same detachable shoulder boards, Bavarian general's cords on red base not visible, with the gilt '7' added between the lower crossed silver Bavarian FM baton arms, as he wore on the uberrock worn in the photos of him at the 1913 maneuvers, and also below. The size, and lack of visible base and underlay colors also support this. This was also the practice, I believe, of non-Prussian officers receiving appointments to Prussian regiments. Can anyone corroborate or correct?

Bump; also please see related thread in uniform forum: Are the shoulder boards Prussian (Prussian silver/black chevron center braid and Prussian batons) or Bavarian? I understand they would be on the appropriate cornflower blue/rose underlay boards.

Leopold von Bayern wore the uniform of the 7th Prussian Dragoon regiment. 1. Does anyone know why? Was he ala suite or honorary chef? And, in what year did he receive this honor? 2: What shoulder boards is he wearing? Prussian or Bavarian? I understand that he would have worn the FM boards of the state (Bavaria) that he held that rank when the honor was given. He was made a Prussian FM in January, 1916. 3. Would he have carried the Prussian interimstab or the Bavarian?

Danke, Waldo!

Yes.

Yes, I forgot that. It seems likely. I've only found one photo of him wearing all/most of his swag, and I can't get a clear enough enlargement to make out any detail. Considering his position with Chiang, it's hard to imagine he didn't get a few gongs.

I will. I doubt he did as his China medal was for a non combatant, awarded for staff work done in Germany.

OK, My re-created von Seeckt medal bar. You can see how easily the Hindenburg Cross medal ribbon can be mistaken for Iron Cross ribbon, especially in a black and white photo.

Yes, understood. My mistaken use of the Red Eagle description 'with swords', rather than 'with crown', following some replies using that erroneous term, when the medal had been correctly identified in the initial and preceding posts, was unfortunate. Clearly, the photos show the crown and no swords.

GlennJ: Yes, thank you. I originally described it properly in the first post. I went off track and wrote 'swords' when I meant 'crown'. Thank you for confirming the details of the non-combatant China Denkmünze. So the medal bar shown in the original post is: 1. Iron cross (1914) 2nd class 2. 'Hindenburg Cross' of 1934 3. Red Eagle 4th class with crown, w/o swords 4. Crown Order 3rd Class w/o swords 5. Prussian officer's 25 year long service cross 6. China medal, steel, for non-combatants 7. Centenary Medal. I still find it an interesting detail that he appears to have worn the slip-on style shoulder boards, a personal preference apparently. Thanks to all who have contributed. If anyone still disagrees with these identifications, I hope they will post and provide some supporting information.

It is. It's the second award listed after the PLM with oak leaves, and before the Crown Order 3rd class NOTE: The Red Eagle 4th is with Crown, w/o swords.

I understand that not all campaign awards are listed in the Rangeliste.

Probably not. I have a rangeliste for 1930 (?), I'll try to post. I have no idea what he got the RAO4mS for. All I can deduce is that an identification of the medals on the bar in the photo above show the 1934 Hindenburg Cross in an unusual placement and the China Medal, presumably for non-combatants, likely for some work he performed as a General Staff officer during or preceding the Boxer Rebellion. NOTE: The Red Eagle 4th is with Crown, w/o swords as mentioned above, and clarified in subsequent posts.

The Red Eagle 4th with crown, is the 3rd position medal, in front of the Crown Order 3rd.

Also, no German states awards on the bar, which supports the HK medal in the #2 spot. Since that medal was only issued in 1934, he wore it only two years, until his death at the end of 1936. Also note the China Medal appears on a 1925 (attributed) photo on a 6 medal bar. Assume this was for work done when he was on the General Staff (appointed 1897) for the 1901 Boxer Rebellion effort. Have not seen any mention of this in online references. This medal bar, only 7 medals but two conundrums. Very interesting to me. No comments on the slip on shoulder boards he seems to have favored on his uniform tunics.

Yes, but depending on the folding of the ribbon, the 'Hindenburg Cross' ribbon could also look the same. Until someone can provide better evidence, that's what it looks like.

Yes! My bad! I believe the Red Eagle 4th is in 3rd place; the 2nd place medal looks too dark. My guess is, for now, it's the 1934 Hiindenburg Cross worn as a war decoration, as it's the only medal with swords in that shape. And, during the Weimar period, until '35, pretty much anything goes as far as ordering. Agree #6 is the China Medal, probably non-combatant as I don't think he took part in the action against the Boxers in 1901.

MAKING THIS A SEPARATE THREAD: He's wearing a 7 place medal bar. I make these to be: 1. IC 2nd (1914) 2. ? 3. Prussian Red Eagle 4th, with crown, w/o swords 4. Prussian Crown order 3rd w/o swords 5. Prussian officer long service cross 6. ? Some kind of China service medal? 7. Centenary Medal

He's wearing a 7 place medal bar. I make these to be: 1. IC 2nd (1914) 2. ? 3. Prussian Red Eagle 4th, with crown, w/o swords 4. Prussian Crown order 3rd w/o swords 5. Prussian officer long service cross 6. ? Some kind of China service medal? 7. Centenary Medal

OK, here's a puzzler for photo interpretation or anyone who has a rangelist. Hans von Seekt often wore infantry regimental uniform (white shoulder board underlay, infantry officer collar litzen). I cannot find any reference to his being ala suite or honorary chef of an infantry regiment until 1936, the year he died, when he received the honor for the 67th IR. The photos are not distinct enough for my eye or computer, but look like a '6'. Does anyone know what other regiments he may have been honored by? PS. I also note that he appears to be wearing the slip on style shoulder boards. ALSO: He's wearing a 7 place medal bar. I make these to be: 1. IC 2nd (1914) 2. ? 3. ? 4. Prussian Crown order 3rd w/o swords 5. Prussian officer long service cross 6. ? 7. Centenary Medal