filfoster

I know, This site no longer uploads photos from my computer!  I can't use a third party site because I'm at work. (Don't tell!).

Here is the repro bar on the GdK uniform:

I have not found one. Color photography was around but seldom used, I suppose because of the cost.  A number of oil portraits of him were done but none with his medal bar that I have found.  P

This is an interesting question.  Our German members may have the Rangelist or other records.  I just read over the week end, in the newer Verlag book, The German Generals,  that he assumed the rank of Generalfeldmarschall in about 1900, at the 'insistence' of the others of that rank (very few at that time: v. Haeseler, v.der Goltz, and v. Bock und v. Pulach. can't recall the other one).  One imagines the several seconds of  mental anguish as Willy II pondered that decision but happily, he did accept and promoted himself to field marshal.  It's interesting that his venerated grandfather never took that rank, remaining a Generaloberst with the rank of  Field Marshal.  He also declined wearing the Oakleaves to his Pour le Merite Grand Cross.

So, that highest promotion would likely not be in the 'official' records.  Or is it?

Allright, here it is:

I finished this over the weekend and hope to post a pic tomorrow. I had to substitute 1914 versions of the Mecklenburg medals and a complete 'ringer' ( a silver 'Neumark' medal that looks vaguely like the Lippe medal obverse) for the #12 medal because there are no copies and originals are too expensive. I will have to swap out as I can, if I ever can.

Best of luck finding those ribbons.

The Lloyds Meritorious Service medal ribbon for 1893 and 1913 look like the ribbon for the Victoria Jubilee medal but the Golden Wedding anniversay medal ribbon will be very difficult. I have been told by a German supplier that it's available but I don't have it yet.

OK, thanks to all who posted to this thread.  I am going to reproduce this bar for a display so my final take on it is:

1. Red Eagle 3rd, w/o swords

2. Crown Order 3rd, w/o swords

3. Hohenzollern Houshold Order 3rd w/o swords

4. Prussian 1813-14-15-1863 Napoleonic wars Commemorative Medal on Hohenzollern ribbon

5. Golden Wedding Medal, Wilhelm I with enameled circumference

6. English Queen Victoria Jubilee Medal (1887) on Llloyd's 1883/1913 type ribbon

The ribbon has been a challenge to run down for #5 and #6.

Here is the silver Thaler.  It was issued in fairly large numbers but, did not seem to see much actual circulation as most examples are in nice condition.  Many made it into jewelry.

 Good photo!  I did get one of these, as well as a copy of the gold medal (gilt brass).  The obverse is identical but the reverses are different, as others have said.

So now we have:

1. Red Eagle 3rd w/o swords;

2. Crown Order 3rd, w/o swords;

3. Hohenzollern House Order 3rd, w/o swords;

4. Prussian1813-14-15-1863 medal on Hohenzollern ribbon;

5. Willy I Golden Wedding anniversary medal (Good luck finding this ribbon)

6. Queen Victoria 1887 Golden Jubilee medal

This looks right to me, no matter how odd the #4 medal is, since there is documented precedence for it.

Yes the lack of enamel on the Wedding Medal is strange but I think it has that in other, later photographs.

 

I am thinking the last medal is the Queen Victoria Jubilee Medal (1887). What do others think?

That makes sense.  It is interesting that this medal is not easy to find with a ribbon, on a regular 'Google' search.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.  I will try to post a picture when I have recreated this bar.

It seems that Wilhelm II was not entitled to the 1870 Commemorative Medal, non-combatant or otherwise I guess? But if given permission to wear the 1863 Napoleonic Wars Commemorative Medal, by Kaiser Wilhelm I, then who could argue.

 

This photo may help with our discussion, regarding the actual medals worn here. Is No. 4 the 1863 Napoleonic Wars Commemorative Medal?

 

Best

Pierce

 Yes, this enlargement is good enough to get my vote for that.

It is curious that the #5 Willy I Golden Wedding medal, which would have that surmounting imperial crown, does not have the enameled circumference band. But, assuming that it is, what is the last medal?  The bust is facing the correct direction for a Victoria-era British medal.

Willy II did NOT wear any 1870 medal. He was too young to serve as an active soldier in this war.

The Prussian princes got a theoretical commission as 10 year old boys but started to serve as "real" Officer atr the age of 18.

 

The number 4 medal in Pierce´ pics is very interesting and I am already looking forward to hot discussions.

Sascha W. pointed me already to that medal a year ago.

In my opinion it is a quite odd award. From different pics we can say that this is the 1863 napoleonic wars commemorative medal, but worn on the Hohenzollern ribbon.

As far as we can say now, there were at least 4-5 Prussian princes wearing this medal, Willy 2 and Fritz 3 among them.

The medal bar of Prince Albrecht is in the DHM in Berlin - showing this comm. medal on the HOH ribbon!

I think, Willy 1 issued this medal to all veterans of the 1813-15 wars and most likely awarded this medal on the Hohenzollern Ribbon to the Princes of the royal house who maybe took part in the celebrations.

 

Lots of greetings

Daniel

Interesting guess.  This may be the medal, but I'd point out it makes less sense to wear this 1863 commemorative medal on a Hohenzollern ribbon than the 1870 medal since Willy II was at least nominally a commissioned officer at the time and might have been given the non combatant medal to wear.

Daniel's reference to Prince Albrecht's 1813-1814-1815 -1863 commemorative medal on the HOH ribbon is a strong bit of evidence in support of this, however and I'm inclined to go with that. A tangible example is hard to refute.

No. 6 is definitely not the Centenary Medal. Those photos are circa 1888, before the Centenary Medal was created (1897).

 

Here is what I think the medals could be:

 

1. Red Eagle 3rd, w/o swords

2. Crown Order 3rd, w/o swords

3. Hohenzollern Houshold Order 3rd w/o swords

4. Hohenzollern Commemorative  Medal/Prussian Regimental Medal???

5. Golden Wedding Medal, Wilhelm I

6. English Queen Victoria Jubilee Medal (1887)???

 

 

The guess as to #6 is plausible, since this was well before the Great War and Willy II was a grandson of Victoria and would likely have been given some English medals, particularly a Jubilee medal.  Good guess.  Wish we could see the details. Does the ribbon look right?

OK, so we have:

1. Red Eagle 3rd, w/o swords

2. Crown Order 3rd, w/o swords

3. Hohenzollern Houshold Order 3rd w/o swords

4. ?

5. Some Hohenzollern commemorative medal

6. Centenary Medal

My bad: the #6 medal is not the 'Centenary medal' but perhaps as PF suggests, the Golden Wedding anniversary commemorative medal for Willy I.  I have not seen this medal before; does anyone have a photo?

OK, so we have:

1. Red Eagle 3rd, w/o swords

2. Crown Order 3rd, w/o swords

3. Hohenzollern Houshold Order 3rd w/o swords

4. ?

5. Some Hohenzollern commemorative medal

6. Centenary Medal

Thanks for this photo. I was able to find a gilt brass or bronze one from a German website and a 'Thaler' medal also in silver. Was the reverse of the Thaler similar to the medal also?

This seems to have been either a rare decoration or one seldom worn. (Although the price for a non-gold one would suggest maybe not so rare).

OK, so now we have:

1. EK2 (1870)

2. 25 year long service

3. 1864 Dupel Cross or Alsen? ribbon looks wrong for Duppel

4. 1870 medal, no bars

5. 1866 medal (Konigratz)

6. 1864 War medal

7. Hohenzollern Denkmünze für Kämpfer 1848 - 1849

8. Krönungsmedaille 1861 (Coronation medal: Was this an actual medal or Thaler coin? I have a reference that shows yellow ribbon)

9. Hessen Militär - Verdienstkreuz 1870 / 71

10. Mecklenburg Sschwerin service cross

11. Mecklenburg Strelitz service cross

12 Lippe Militärverdienstmedaille mit gekreuzten Säbeln auf dem Band 1870 / 71

Does anyone have any more information about the 1861 coronation medal?

7. Hohenzollern Denkmünze für Kämpfer 1848 - 1849

8. Krönungsmedaille 1861

9. Hessen Militär - Verdienstkreuz 1870 / 71

11. Mecklenburg - Strelitz Kreuz für Auszeichnung im Kriege 1871

12. Lippe Militärverdienstmedaille mit gekreuzten Säbeln auf dem Band 1870 / 71

I hope I´m right.

Regards

Andreas

So, is #10 the Mecklenburg Schwerin 1871 service cross?

That;s a good photo and I count only 12 medals:

1. EK2 (1870)

2. 25 year long service

3. 1864 Dupel Cross or Alsen? ribbon looks wrong for Duppel

4. 1870 medal, no bars

5. 1866 medal (Konigratz)

6. 1864 War medal

7. ?

8. ?

9. Mecklenburg Sschwerin

10. Mecklenburg Strelitz

11. ?

12.? Some Turkish medal, Imtiaz or somesuch?

Can anyone decipher the medals worn by Field Marshal von Moltke?

I am sure that he was awarded medals and honors by the bushel basketsful by the German States and had virtually every Prussian award except the Oakleaves to his PLM Grand Cross, so the list of his awarded medals isn't necessarily what he actually chose to wear on his bar.

The resolution of the photos I have isn't good enought to identify more than a few.

Here is a portrait and also a photograph of the Kaiser circa 1888.

The fourth medal appears to be on the Hohenzollern House ribbon. What would that be? Something commemorative?

Thanks for these photos. They show good representations of his pre-war medal bars. Not sure what commemorative Hohenzollern medals would have been issued for the appropriate time period. His grandfather wore one for aid in the 1848-49 'troubles', but that would not be appropriate for Willy II.

The second award should be a Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse ohne Schwerter. Ley had both classes.

http://reocities.com/~orion47/DAF.html

Thank you. Since the ribbon is the same, this would not have been clear. I am making a 'display' copy of the medal bar and that is an important distinction. Assuming the 'with swords' was the later award, and the photo is late war, this would be the better medal to use.

The ribbon bar in the photo is as follows:

Perfect. You were posting as I was also and this answer describes the BW photo perfectly. Please accept my thanks!