filfoster

Makoff: Thank you!  This ends the mystery. That is wonderful! Glory to Ukraine!

Lukasz: Thank you! Very nice photo!

...I did just today receive that Luitpold jubilee replica from a German vendor. I have used it before and it's a nice copy.

Lukasz and Dan, thank you very much. I believe this is enough to recreate the ribbon and medal bars for Ludwig. III. The difficulty with the medal bar recreation will be several of the obscure ones that are not commonly found as originals and never as copies, e.g., The Bavarian 1910 Agricultural Jubilee, the Wurttemberg Karl 25 year Jubilee medal and the Austrian 1908 Jubilee medal for foreigners. This will be a  very long term (and perhaps expensive) project.

Can someone provide a photo and perhaps different name for the #14 medal? My searches only yield the 1908 Signum Memoriae medal.

Thank you to Dan and Lukasz!

So we have now:

1.  Jubilee medal for the Order of St. George

2.  Military Merit Order 3rd with swords

3.  Ludwig Order

4.  Cross for Medical Volunteers

5.  Luitpold 1909 70 year Jubilee medal

6.  1910 Agricultural Jubilee medal

7.  Bavarian 1866 campaign cross

8. Prussian 25 year service cross

9.  Prussian Centenary Medal

10. Princely Schaumburg-Lippe military service medal

11. Ducal Anhalt Golden Commemorative medal 25th anniversary of reign

12. Queen Victoria Golden/Diamond Jubilee medal

13. Austrian 1908 Signum Memoriae Medal

14. Austrian 1908 Jubilee medal for Foreigners

15. Austrian F J 1848-98 Tapferkeit

16. 1896 Russian Nicholas II coronation medal

Lukasz Gaszewski:  Thank YOU!  I very much appreciate your help. I suspect the 1910 Agricultural Jubilee medal, while not particularly valuable, will be hard to find.

Can you can ID any of the other unknown ones?

ONLY 5 more to go!

Is #12 the Queen Victoria Golden/Silver Jubilee medal?

#14 is also definitely an Austrian medal because of the Franz Josef bust on the obverse. Which one?

So we have now:

1.  Jubilee medal for the Order of St. George

2.  Military Merit Order 3rd with swords (and crown?)

3.  Ludwig Order

4.  Cross for Medical Volunteers

5.  Luitpold 1909 70 year Jubilee medal

6.  1910 Agricultural Jubilee medal

7.  Bavarian 1866 campaign cross?

8. Prussian 25 year service cross

9.  Prussian Centenary Medal

10. 

11.

12.

13.

14. Austrian Bravery Medal

15. Austrian F J Tapferkeit

16.

Bump, as they say. 

No guesses for the #4 medal?

The Napoleonic wars campaign medal also resembles the medal in the 4th place.  There is no reason I know of that would suggest Ludwig III would have received or worn this medal:

It is not a common medal to find on ebay or on the usual medal vendor sites.

I hope some of the experts on this site can help fill in the missing blanks. The most puzzling mystery is the medal that appears in the #4 position in my initial post, and the #3 medal in the photo of him wearing Prussian uniform. It has rounded ends to the cross arms and is a similar shape but larger than the 1866 campaign medal that appears further on, on both bars.  There is no medal in the precedence list that corresponds to this shape.

For reference, my precedence shows, after the Ludwig Order:

Military Merit Cross for Peacetime 

Merit Cross for 1870-71

Lifesaving Medal

Ludwig Medal

Merit Cross for Voluntary Care of the Sick

Prussian Iron Cross

1916 Ludwig Cross

Jubilee Medals

The Merit Cross for the Voluntary Care of the Sick is the only one that corresponds to the shape of the #4 medal but this decoration seems very unlikely. It's not impossible, as I know King Edward VII of England wore two Red Cross medals on his bar, the Prussian Order of the Crown 3rd class with Red Cross device, and the 'Geneva Cross' French medal. 

The photo is a 1914 example but I think it was instituted before the war, 1901.

7 hours ago, Bayern said:

My best wishes of success to you !

 

Any idea what the #4 medal is?

3 hours ago, 91-old-inf-reg said:

#12

OK, let's fill that in. Agree it's there in the photo where he's in Prussian uniform (Mostly Prussian decorations, Hohenzollern collar, Black Eagle star, etc.. You can just see the small tilted crown on the bust.

3 hours ago, P.F. said:

On the earlier medal bars there appears to be a Queen Victoria Golden Jubilee Medal.

In which position?

So, as of now (bold type for ones I feel pretty confident about):

Particularly puzzled by #4: Nothing in my order of precedence reference looks like it.

This must be something not mounted in the order of precedence. Women's and nursing orders are between the Ludwig Order and the Jubilee medals.

1. Jubilee medal for the Order of St. George

2. Military Merit Order 3rd with swords 

3. Ludwig Order

4. 

5. Luitpold 1909 70 year Jubilee medal

6. Luitpold 1905 Jubilee medal

7. Bavarian 1866 campaign cross?

8. Luitpold 40 year long service cross

9. Prussian Centenary Medal

10.

11.

12. Hanoverian 1866 Langensalza battle medal 

13. Victoria Golden/Platinum Jubilee Medal

14. Austrian Bravery medal?

15. Austrian F J Tapferkeit

16.

#7.  Liutpold 40 year service cross?

REVISITING:  I hope another copy will come to market, offered as a copy instead of a real one.

29 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

I'm fully aware what it is Filfoster, that is why I said the link may be helpful in identifying medals on Ludwig III's bar - if you check the link (more) carefully, you will see that the medals on each of the stoelen bars are listed. Coupled with hte new photographs, I think the link gives you a handsome guide that should assist in further narrowing down the list.

 

Just a thought ...... ?

 

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Sandro: Thank you.

9 hours ago, Bayern said:

King Ludwig III of Bayern was a true soldier , he was wounded in a leg while serving in the Royal Bavarian Army during 1866 war against the Prussians and allied with Austria Hungary . the bullet was not removed and the future King carried until his death a certain slight limp . you can see this in the films portraying the King and you can observe that he normally wear long trousers and not Breeches and riding boots . He was Much Loved in Bavaria and I wish to remember that Bavaria was a Federate Kingdom into the Empire with his own Army and War Minister, his own Railways and his own Post and Prussian postal stamps were not current in Bavaria . Army Officers Lists run separate the same was valid for Numbering the Army Regiments . to end, Ludwig III dont fled 

 

Yes, he's an interesting historical person. That's why I want to replicate his medal and ribbon bars and perhaps his dress uniform.

I hope these medals and orders were recovered.  Were there ribbon bars in this collection that presumably were not included in the stolen items, likely because they did not have medals and so seemed of less value? Are they currently on display?

GdC26: The photos are very helpful but I still will need help with some of the later (righthand) gongs.

As to the URL link, I am very sorry this appears to be a notice of a theft. The medal bars appear to be Prince Leopold's. I can tell because I have copied the topmost one with help from the members of this forum.

See: 

#13 A medal from Hesse or Saxe Coburg, looks like Carl Eduard profile....

#14 Austrian Siignum Laudis? No crown so could be another Austrian medal of 1866?

7 minutes ago, VtwinVince said:

Calm down. I've seen plenty of German-bashing in my time, glad this is not an example thereof. Carry on.

Gosh no, gentle fun. I am never seldom intentionally rude. 

Still plenty of blanks left to fill and correct my errant guesses.

#4, out of precedence order (but he's king right?) Bavarian 1866 war cross.  Kinda 'in you face' for the Prussians, no?

#12 Hanoverian 1866 Langensalza battle medal?

Thanks, PF and Dave Danner.  Can anyone help fill in the vacant slots in the initial post? I can guess at a few but my eyes and references aren't up to a certainty for most of the vacancies.

Yes, ccj, I think you're right. No, I didn't mean to imply that he did get either one pre-war, because to my eye, these two awards are NOT apparent on pre-war photo with the medal bar at all and so I'd say he doesn't wear them. They are 'conspicuously absent'- not there at all - when he might have gotten at least a Max Joseph at any time: he's the King after all, and could have given it to himself or some toady could have put him in for one.

He fought AGAINST Prussia in 1866 and so would certainly not have gotten a Prussian valor award then and I don't see that he fought in 1870-71, so no EK of any degree for him from that war either. He's obviously wearing an EK 1 in your photo which seems to be a WW1 era picture. I can't tell from the black and white photo if there's an EK2 ribbon on the bar.

I am primarily interested in the pre-war medal bar but if anyone can decipher the above war time photo, that would also be appreciated. Another project.

..."Wikipedia", that august reference source, says he held the Max Joseph Order Grand Cross but again, I don't see the knight's cross, the lowest degree, on his pre war medal bar, which would have been the usual convention, even if he'd only received the higher degree. His brother Leopold had it in its proper order. In fact, Leopold's medal bar begins in almost the same sequence but had the Max Joseph at the #2 space.