Don Bible

[attachmentid=49902] I am attempting to post a better photo for you. Please bear with me, as today is my first attempt at posting a picture.

I saw your question on the forum about the collar tag > for a police dog (polizei diensthund). I am attempting to post a couple of scans of > a similar disc I have had for about 15 years. Mine is also for the > State of Hesse...but for the Schutzpolizei and is number 2. The > number stamp appears to be the same as yours. > > At an early MAX show in Baltimore about 1990 or 91, I bought this > disc from Sigmund Stefan, a German dealer whom I haven't seen or > heard of in years....but one of the most honest men I ever met. He > always went out of his way to point out repro material on his > tables. He sold a lot of military surplus from Eastern Europe, and > a lot of repro material....but now and then an original piece. I > bought my first Third Reich era Gemeinde Kripo disc from him > and still have it today. At the time, neither of us knew how rare > it was. > > When he sold me the diensthund disc, he told me that he was almost > certain that it was original...but postwar. I have always > considered it to be just that, as I have never seen another or > heard anything differently. > > We do know for certain that the Gestapo used service dogs as that > fact is revealed on a Gestapo agent's free transportation pass, but I > know nothing further about that. > > Just take this for whatever it is worth, which is little, >but I thought you would like to see the disc. The > pictures are very dark.

I agree with Gold Party Pin Guy. It would be great if all "Gestapo" fake discs were so easy to spot, but that just isn't the case. The excellent counterfeit Gestapo discs, as well as those for the ultra-rare Prussian State Criminal Police, and almost certainly for the Geheime Feld Polizei. are all of much higher quality and far fewer errors. The Prussian State Criminal Police Discs were made in both the correct Neusilber and bronze versions. These discs along with one for the GFP, all appeared in 1994. They were supposedly from Polish Archives....or from a Polish farmer's barn, and appeared in such diverse places as Germany, England, Belgium, and the United States, almost at the same time. They usually sold for $2500, and several were sold to even experienced collectors, before the scam was discovered. One very experienced European collector became the proud owner of TWO of the fake Prussian State Criminal Police discs. He bought one in both the bronze and Neusilber versions. Today they cannot easily be sold at any price.

Thank you for your kind words. I will try to answer your question without becoming commercial. I had expected that this subject would come up, and have wondered a little how to handle it. I must confess that I didn't expect it so quickly. Quite frankly, I know of very little ever written on the subject in the past sixty years, which to me is rather surprising. In retrospect, I suppose that is why I made my first stab at trying to publish something 15 years ago. In 1991 I wrote my first small self-published booklet about the discs with some tips about how to distinguish the fakes from the originals. Fortunately all the tips still hold true I think, but others have been learned. Later three other books were self-published on the subject between 1993 and 2000. In 2001, SCHIFFER PUBLISHING LTD, published my book "Third Reich Warrant Discs.....1934-1945." as a part of its Military History Book series. That book pretty much sums up the information that was known to me at the time. I have written a few collector magazine articles on the subject of counterfeit warrant discs...most notably the excellent quality fake pieces that appeared in Europe and the U.S. in 1994-95. Those articles appeared in MAX Gazette, Military Trader, and in two issues of The Armourer, published in the UK. Military Advisor also once published one of my articles on the warrant discs several years ago. In 2005, I self-published another book on the subject, but focused more on my experience in acquiring a few of the Gestapo discs I have owned. If any further information is needed about any of the books, please send me a PM. I don't want to abuse my membership here by coming across as a book salesman. Here, I hope to be able to help others avoid some of the minefields that are found in this part of collecting, and hopefully to meet some fellow collectors in the police warrant disc hobby.

Thanks Nick, Gordon, John, Paul, Don, Rosenberg, and Bob, for the words of welcome. I hope to be of some small assistance to members here who have, or develop an interest in the narrow field of my knowledge, which is the warrant discs and ID cards of the Third Reich era German Secret State Police (Gestapo), Kripo and Zoll (Customs) officers. Many years ago, I fortunately...or unforunately became involved in a niche of our hobby where counterfeits, reproductions and fantasy pieces almost certainly outnumber the originals in far greater numbers than probably any other field of Third Reich collecting. In writing this however, I don't want newcomers to the hobby to be discouraged....just be very careful. I promise you it is an interesting and rewarding field of research and collecting. I am still as fascinated by it today as I was 20 years ago...and fortunately a bit more knowledgeable. The school of experience in this field can be very costly...and lonely. The best advice I know to give anyone who is thinking of "testing the waters" in this field of collecting, is to deal with reputable dealers or collectors. A mistake can easily be made, and being able to get your money returned is of paramount importance. Always ask for a reasonable inspection period on any warrant disc you buy, with a guarantee of full return of your money if it doesn't check out. Then post good close-up scans of both sides on this forum. We will make every effort to help you properly determine the authenticity of any Third Reich era German warrant disc.