Don Bible

Reverse side. Please note high quality and patina of example at upper left. That one makes me wonder.

These examples are from what I refer to as my Fake Collection.

These pieces have been around for many years and vary in quality with many of them being obvious fakes. I have seen a few examples that bear further scrutiny. IF THERE ARE actual examples dating back to the pre 1945 period, they must may have been some sort of property marker, as all of them seem to bear the SAME number for each individual KZ represented by the name on the piece. It is my opinion that they were never used as identification for a STAATSPOLIZEI officer.

Thank you Paul. It is good to know what the language is, and what it means. It is still a mystery why it was found with the German pins in the veteran's belongings. Don

Thank you Sebastien. Does anyone recognize the language in which the single word is written? Thanks, Don

CORRECTION: The pin in question is to the far left. Thanks. Don

Can anyone tell me is the small pin to the right of this picture is Masonic? It was brought back from Germany by a WWII veteran along with the other pins. Thanks

As a follow up to my last post, I will try to explain in a little more detail. When the fake pieces of the three discs mentioned above appeared in 1994, there were known originals of two of them for minute comparasion. The fake discs for the ultra-rare Prussian State Kripo disc were counterfeited in at least three different metals...bronze, nickel-silver and silver plated, but all were struck on the SAME counterfeit dies. The Fake Gestapo disc was produced in the correct nickel-silver (neusilber)., and the Geheime Feldpolizei (GFP) disc was produced in neusliber. All were die struck in very high quality. The fake "Gestapo" disc was the first to be unmasked. Then shortly afterwards the Prussian State Kripo disc was equally discredited. That left ONLY the GFP disc that could not be effectively declared a fake....because the only known original example of that disc had been used to produce the counterfeit. A rather poor illustration of it is shown in a 1989 published Osprey book "German Military Police Units 1939-45" written by Gordon Williamson, and illustrated by Ron Volstad. Today, the whereabouts of that original disc is unknow to the collecting world, but probably still in the possession of the persons who were involved in producing the fake discs. Since there is no other known original example of the GFP disc, by which to use to unmask the fake pieces....no one that I know can "tell you for sure", but in a case like this, a little bit of common sense can go a long way toward saving one's money.

I have told you all I know to tell you. These high quality GFP discs like the one I posted here, appeared in 1994 in company with "Gestapo" and "Prussian State Kripo" discs that have conclusively been proven to be counterfeit pieces. All of them once sold for $2000-$2500, and cannot today be sold for one-tenth of that amount. I think your disc is a poorly cast copy of one of the better quality fakes. I don't know how to tell you how to find out "for sure", beyond what I have posted here. I can say that a lot of other collectors around the world "found out for sure" when they layed out large amounts of money for the high quality counterfet pieces. You may see copies of the fakes I have mentioned here by visiting my website at http://home.comcast.net/~donbible/ Don Bible

reverse side

This is an example I have in what I consider my Fakes box.

In my opinion your badge for the Geheime Feld Polizei (GFP) is a cast reproduction. Even the high quality badges normally seen for sale at around $2000-$2500, are in my opinion, also fake. They turned up "en masse" in 1994, along with counterfeit Gestapo discs and Prussian State Kripo discs. Don Bible

matteti, the warrant discs are about my only Third Reich era collecting interest. It is an interesting niche of the hobby, but one filled with "minefields." At the price of $8 each you certainly are not hurt by the purchase. If real, one is talking in the thousands of dollars for discs such as these. I keep my discs in a bank vault and do not have one handy to scan, but the edge should be perfectly flat just like a coin. The original discs are die struck. What you describe sounds like a casting in a two piece mold.

This Gestapo disc is a well known fake of a type that has been around for decades. It has no collector's value. The original discs are much different with no number or letter under the eagle. Examples of original Gestapo discs may be seen on the website http://home.comcast.net/~donbible/ Nothing is for sale...only for reference to collectors. The disc for the Secret Field Police (GFP) is, in my opinion, also a fake piece, probably produced in 1994....or later. Several examples of it were sold at that time, before it was exposed that the sellers were also selling known counterfeit examples of the Prussian State Criminal Police (Staatl.Preuss.Krim Polizei) warrant disc in both Neusilber and bronze, along with high quality fake Gestapo warrant discs. Collectors lost a lot of money on the 1994 produced fakes, as they often sold for $2000-$2500...or more. These GFP discs are still found listed now and then on websites and ebay, but few knowledgeable collectors will touch them. In my opinion, they too are worthless. If you have further questions, I will try to help. Don Bible

Ernst, please excuse my late reply. The disc was not where I was at the moment yesterday. The dimensions are approximately 31x52x2 mm.

Ernst, I have only seen a few examples of collar tags for police dogs, but I have not seen one before like yours, which appears to have a hole in each end. It may be an illusion created by the scan, but your tag appears to have a slight curve to it, suggesting that it might have been rivited to the collar of the dog, rather than attached by a single ring to the collar. In any case it is an interesting tag, which I wish I knew something about. Don Bible

Rick, this is a truly amazing photograph, and your translation of the names of the GFP officers and your comments are priceless to me. This picture and your translation and comments will be displayed with my example of the Imperial GFP disc, I think it is probably the best documentation that I could ever hope to get, that the GFP organization truly existed. Picture and comments has been credited to THE RICHARD LUNDSTROM COLLECTION. Sincerely, Don Bible Mohawk, Tennessee

Thank you for your reply and this wonderful old photo. This is more information than I have found anyplace else. The photo suggests a lot about how this organization was run, and is the ONLY photo I have ever seen of Imperial GFP officers. Thank you again for your most appreciated contribution. Best regards, Don Bible

[attachmentid=63617][attachmentid=63618]Third Reich era police warrant discs have been a longtime collecting interest for me, but I know very little about the police warrant discs used prior to 1934. Many years ago in California, a police warrant disc for the Geheime Feld Polizei turned up at the Great Western Show, but was not for sale. It was not numbered. I still have photocopies of it. Another example of the same disc has been on exhibit for many years at the Wehrgeschichtliches Museum Schloss Rastatt in Baden W?rtemberg. It too is unnumbered. Until recently, those were the only examples of that warrant disc I had ever heard about. A few weeks ago an example of that disc came up for sale on the Internet site of a German dealer, where it remained for several weeks until I learned about it from a German friend. I seldom checked the site for warrant discs. I ended up buying the disc although I am not normally interested in warrant discs prior to the Third Reich era. It too, is an unnumbered disc. It is a beautiful die struck example of what I believe is a relatively rare and unknown disc, which I would like to learn more about. I have never seen anything in the German archives pertaining to the Imperial GFP, and am wondering if any World War I historians on this site can shed any light on this apparently esoteric organization.

Thanks for sending the back view of your polizei tag for Diensthund. The backs of both tags appear identical except for the metallic composition. Best regards,

Please disregard my description of the material in my last post. I mis-spoke. I meant to say it has the same texture and color of the Third Reich era Staatliche Kripo disc...NOT the Gemeinde. Sorry!

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We seem to posting at the same time. The material of my disc is bronze I think. It has the same color and texture as a Third Reich era Gemeinde Kripo disc. It could be either pre-Third Reich era or post-1945, I suppose. There is really no way I know of at this time to determine the period of use of that type police dog tag. I think these mysteries are what keeps this part of the hobby interesting. Best regards.