Deelibob

Hi Dave,

Will bear you in mind should I spot something that may be of interest. I Collect Victorian Met and Liverpool City Police Items.

Regards

Peter Dellius

(Deelibob)

I have only seen one of these in the flesh  before and that was c 1974 in Macclesfield Police Station Canteen and it was on a Bobbies key ring. Not a common item

There is a specimen on e-bay at the Moment 10.15am 2/3/19 with 1 hour 30 mins to go with a bit of interest being shown. 4 Bidders at present.

Peter

When the Police Exemplary Service Medal (LS&GC) came into being 1951. All officers serving with the requisite time served (22 Years) got it so if John Hughes joined say 1920'2 and was still serving 1951 then he got the medal. This happened in all forces and Liverpool City Police must have got hit for  hundreds of the awards ( There being over 1000 joining in 1919 alone to bolster ranks after the Strike)

 I work on the assumption that everyone gets 15 minutes of fame (I am still waiting for mine) and so had a look at John  Hughes and he may be one and the same as, John HUGHES, born 10:2:1896,  Son of a  Farmer, David and his Wife Jane living on a Farm at Meifod, Llanrhaido, Denbigh. He probably served WWi and joined the Police on demob. I found that he had served on Anglesey during WWII and resided with his Wife Ann Hughes Nee Jones at 23 Well Street, Amlech, Anglesey. Working on my 15 minutes theory he may well have been serving there in the Borough Force  prior to Amalgamation/s and if so  May have been involved in the Arrest/Aftermath of the Murder of PC Pritchard in 1924.

Wishful thinking, maybe, but possible and I can find no other  John Hughes who fits the bill.

Hope of use

Peter

My Oldest Station was Westminster Road, Liverpool. Built 1885. Initially "E" Division Liverpool City Police, "B" Division Liverpool and Bootle Constabulary and later "A" Dvision Merseyside. Closed 1984 (Pity it didn't make a century)

Regards

Whilst perusing the web site of Cairn Castle Militaria I came across this group and thought it may be of interest to members of this thread.  The Price is not stated but will be supplied  by the vendor upon request

further to above Tom's Mother was Eliza Ann Wilkin nee Morris. They were married 1900.

Hi Ralph,

My best guess would be that Tom was a Postman in Aldborough and was sent a rail warrant( as was the norm) and exchanged same at Liverpool. The Lanc's connection may well be lodgings whilst waiting for ship. As stated my comments were conjecture. I have no further information on Florence or Morton.

Peter

PS. There is no record of Tom having married.

Peter

Hello Ralph,

As far as I am aware most PP embarked from Liverpool at some stage. Tom (Thomas James) Wilkin was as far as I  know  from Aldborough  in Norfolk the son of John Thomas and Eliza Ann Wilkin. He had a Sister, Florrie and he was courting a Jewish woman and she attended his funeral.

The medals were purchased from a Dealer in Devon over 20 years ago but had for many years previously been in the collection of the Membership Secretary  of the Orders and Medals Research Society who I would think is now deceased. I would not think there is any Family left but this is conjecture.

It may well be that if Tom did reside in East Lanc's as a postman he may well have been married and had children, again conjecture. His NOK are listed on CWGC as his Parents and his Sister is mentioned on his headstone.

Regards

Peter

Further to above. Tom was born in Aldborough 1910, his Father was a Postman and also born in Aldborough.

Peter

Hi Ralph,

I too am a member of the BPPA as I was its predecessor  the PPOCA  but do not subscribe to Facebook. I am afraid I cannot be of much use regarding information as my humble effort depicted above is, give or take, the sum total of my knowledge on Supt Wilkin.

Regards

Peter Dellius

Hello Dave,

Yes indeed, too late now but in more ways than one I am afraid. Some time ago I read that Government had decided that all unclaimed medals held by the various services were to be destroyed by melting and that all monies from the smelting of these medals would go to the Exchequer. I  immediately wrote to the Army Medal office at Worcester , now the Tri Service medal Office, asking that my comments be forwarded to the correct authority. (This letter remains unanswered) Realising that to try and reason  with government Departments is like trying to empty the Atlantic with a spoon I took the path of pointing out the price of scrap silver against the price of selling the medals to collectors. These medals would include Peninsula War &  Battle of Waterloo participants, Men who took part in the Charge of the Light Brigade, Rorkes Drift Defenders, Defenders at Mafeking not to mention  members of the ill-fated Franklin expedition and so on right up to WWII Etc Etc. Many thousands of pounds could be raised from the scrap silver but I would vouchsafe that the result of a sale to collectors would reap millions for the Country.   So I suppose the refusal to issue  William's GSM pales against the scale of damage wrought by such an act of institutional vandalism. Madness utter Madness.

Peter

William Birch joined the Palestine Police c. 1930 as Constable 720. He was later  joined  by his Fiancee Margaret Gettle ( altered from the German Goetel during WW1) and they were married in Palestine c. 1935 and adopted the Colonial lifestyle. They did not have children.

On the 1st October 1938, William was leading a patrol in Ramallah when they were fired upon and Willam Killed. He was buried with full Military Honours on Mount Zion, Jerusalem. His widow returned to her home Town Liverpool, England where she died many years later, she did not re marry.

Three Arabs stood trial on 14th of October, 1938 and sentenced to death by hanging, Izzat Hussein  Abdul Ramhman aged 30, Ali Yusef Ahmed aged 28 and Hassan Abdul Muti aged 29 from Beir Nabala near Ramallah. All three were found in a house with rifles and I am not sure if they were sentenced for the murder or their possession of the rifles. They were duly executed

The above story was related to me by an elderly lady who was related to Margaret. She had in her possession a solid silver sports medal named to William, I enquired the whereabouts of his General Service Medal and was informed that the Family had no knowledge. I made enquiries with the Worcester medal office and was informed that the medal remained unclaimed. An application for the medal was made on 17th June 2005 and turned into a saga, the outcome being that my elderly friend(now deceased) was too distant a relation and as no other family remained the application was refused.

And so Williams medal remains on a shelf and the only testament to his service and sacrifice is a humble sports medal, which is coveted in my collection

I somehow became the owner of this lovely photograph, I do not collect such items but thought the members of this thread may like to see it. I assume it is an in memoriam card of some description but is not the usual type as it is a card cabinet photo.

I hope it is of interest

Peter

Just my luck but will content myself with thought that the badge was possibly worn by one of the above. Thank you so much for your kind and informative help.

Regards

Peter

Odin, Many thanks for you efforts on my behalf but my mans number is W 16  the photo is a little distorted but the original is clearly W16. I am much obliged for your help. and overawed by the information you have.

Again Many thanks

Peter

A bit of a Forlorn Hope but I  was hoping that a clued up Metropolitan Police Collector Member  of Forum may be able to put a name to this Sergeant. The items were purchased in Bognor Regis. Due to the Lack of WW1  or Coronation Medals I would tentatively say it is probably circa 1910 to 1930 ish (I Stand to be corrected of course)

Here's hoping

Regards

Peter

Hi Simon,

The rear of the badge is very difficult to make out but having enlisted the help of a pair of young eyes the badge reads :

On horseshoe fitting   Reg.638232

Around top   Reg.  em 833656

Around bottom  Thomas Fattorini Bolton

Hope this helps as I don't think badge will scan too well.

This badge was in a Princess Mary WWI box with a 1914-15 Trio (Coldstream Guards) and Lverpool City Police medals, to  Wilfred Clarke HARE, who was from the North East but joined Liverpool City Police 1912, joined Army at outbreak of war (Maybe recalled to Colours) rejoined Police as Constable 105"B" after being wounded and discharged (correct Wound Badge with Group) He was not a Striker as he retired on 25/1/1937 after 25 years service but may have been a NUPPO member. Who knows he may have been one of the 50 "Lost Sheep" who returned to the  fold before the deadline set by the Watch Committee thus escaping the fate of approx. 955 colleagues who were cast into the wilderness of unemployment. Wilfred passed away on 17/12/1966 aged 75 years.

Hope of interest

Peter

Thanks Fellas,  Simon, It is at present in a frame but it has a horse shoe fitting and is a  lapel badge. I will have a look to  see if it is named and   " Attempt" to scan and post an image. I do know of several relatives of strikers who wear a NUPPO badge in honour of their forebear.

Peter

Many years ago when trawling through Antique or Junk shops it was not uncommon to come across a NUPPO badge, usually accompanying Police Badges or Medals.

Not so these days as the badges seldom come to light but do appear from time to time on e-bay. I think that  Metropolitan Police, Birmingham City, Birkenhead or Liverpool Police Medal/s to a Striker would be enhanced with the display of a Badge that signifies the sacrifice that came with Loyalty to the National Union Of Police and Prison Officers.

Peter

The surname Ind is not a common name and I thought it may be worth you researching  Alfred  Ernest Ind who won a VC during the boer war. He was born 1872 in Tetbury, Gloucestershire  which is only 40 miles from Wooton Bassett, Wilts,the birthplace of William Ind. There may be a family connection perhaps.

Constble 72"A" of the Liverpool Police posing for the Camera on Lime Street " with his donkeys breakfast" during the Transport Strike of 1911. Members of the Birmingham City Police marching towards St Georges Hall to take up positions, shortly after rioting broke out and terrible injuries sustained by both Police and Transport strikers/supporters alike. A KPM was won that day by a Birmingham Constable who went to the aid of an isolated and badly injured Birmingham  Superintendent. The Constable was severely injured too.  

In the Liverpool Police the straw helmets were known as " A Donkeys Breakfast "

Thanks BJOW, very interesting and informative, I am most grateful for your help.

Regards

Peter

BJOW,

Many thanks for the information.

Regards

Peter

Can anyone assist with information on a PC W(illiam) PIPER, "E" Division Metropolitan Police. He is entitled to an 1887 Jubilee medal. That's all I know at present.

Thanks

Peter (Deelibob)

I have seen a photograph of a relative taken 1943 in which he sports the ribbon of the 1939-45 star.  There was also an article  many years ago regarding medal ribbon collector Lionel Guille (Founder Member of OMRS) and photo of him inspecting WW2 Medal ribbon being manufactured in 1942/43. So it is possible that Christie is wearing the Defence Medal ribbon.

 I do not know of serial killers but certainly know of five men who served in WW1 went on to kill and took the nine o'clock walk for their trouble.

The Blazing car Murderer, Travelling Salesman Alfred Rouse, 24th London Regiment, wounded during a bayonet fight at Festubert 1915 and discharged wounded  with a Silver war badge badge 1916. (Suffered terrible nightmares) Entitled to WW1 Trio.

The Crowborough Chicken Farm Murderer, Small holding owner Norman Thorne.  Entitled BWM and Victory (Poss. Named to RNAS)

"The Dandelion Dead"  Murderer,Solicitor Herbert Rowse Armstrong TD MA Entitled to TD,TEM and BWM. Don't think he served overseas. (It may be that the TEM was handed in on his being awarded the TD as some officers did)

 Police Killers, Garage Owners Browne and Kennedy who murdered Essex Police Constable  George Gutteridge c. 1927 during the theft of a Morris Cowley motor car. I believe both entitled to Trio's but not confirmed.

I would not doubt there are many more.

Hope of interest.

Peter

OMRS = Orders and Medals Research Society