dante

If you can get the guy's exact unit and the rough date he picked up the RK then you'd have a half decent starting point (assuming the history of his unit is adequately recorded that is). If you're lucky then it won't be one of the areas where a mass of German troops from all sorts of units were retreating in which case you're going to have a problem. If we're talking about one of the Germans holed up in Dunkirk then i reckon you've got a pretty good chance.

Simon, thanks I have been trying to find out, will let you all know how I get on, Paul

Hello Paul:

Unfortunately, Chris is entirely correct.

The piece that you have is a 1914 EKII which has had the details ground off of the obverse (I can see the circular machining marks left where the "1914" date used to be). The core is definately a 1914 EKII core which has been altered. The piece was then re-soldered poorly, hence the open seam. And of course, in my opinion, ANY EKII with a marked ring was made during the First World War or thereafter.

Thus, this is a forgery of relatively modern origin.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Thanks Guys, sent it back to the guy I traded with, again thanks, Paul

No probs, but can you point out your reasons, thanks, Paul

By the way its a K?nigliches M?nzamt Orden

And poor dante. The Iron Cross is a modern fake using an old frame with a faked core, in my humble opinion ...

No probs, but can you point out your reasons, thanks, Paul

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Dante, could you please show a bigger picture of the Iron Cross 1870? I'm not sure if I like what I see ...

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I don't know of any easily accesible lists that holds date/place of death of RKT. You can search in http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/ on an individual basis but other than that???

Thanks Richard

That description sounds like only that of Volume I, as it ends at Sedan. You'd need both volumes. I haven't seen them, so I don't know how detailed they are.

Zook, Paul , thanks....Dave great group, why did some 1870s have bars and others not

I'm not sure about regular books with detailed orbats.

If you can access Google Books (I know continental Europeans can't, but I'm not sure about Britain), the English translation of August Niemann's military history of the war is here: http://books.google.com/books?id=9Y4GAAAAQAAJ

Is this any good "New two-volume military history of the Franco-Prussian War, Quintin Barry presents a detailed account of the war against the French Imperial Army waged by the armies of the German Confederation, directed by that supreme military mind, Helmuth von Moltke. The author places Moltke and his strategic planning in the context of the European balance of power following the ending of the Austria Prussian War of 1866, before exploring the initial mobilisation and deployment of the armies in 1870. All of the battles of this opening round of the war are described in detail, including Weissenburg, Worth, Spicheren, Borny-Colombey, Mars la Tour, Gravelotte, Beaumont and, of course, Sedan.

The book ends as the Second Empire of Napoleon III lies defeated, crushed by the German armies directed by von Moltke. The author has made full use of an extensive number of German and French language sources. His detailed text is accompanied by a number of black and white illustrations and battle maps. Orders of battle are also provided. 480 pages c. 90 ills. & maps ?32.50

untitled.bmp

Rick has posted a sticky with the battle bars by corps here: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3794

The combination of bars on the first medal bar, along with the Bavarian 1866, points to a member of II. Bavarian Army Corps. I don't think you can narrow it further. Was the Centenary Medal given to all Bavarian veterans?

On the second, Belfort would seem to indicate one of the reserve divisions that served there. The 25 year oaks, but no Centenary Medal, would place the bar between 1895 and 1897.

The last is a bit odd. Strassburg credit went to the Baden Feld-Division, the Garde-Landwehr-Division, and the 1. Reserve-Division. There is no Baden Felddienstauszeichnung, and none of the Baden regiments fought at Bapaume. So it is likely form either the Garde-Landwehr-Division or the 1. Reserve-Division. Unfortunately, the Ruhmeshalle unserer alten Armee doesn't give 1870/71 campaign credits for reserve or Landwehr units, and the account of Bapaume in Niemann's history of the war doesn't mention these units. Maybe some other source on Bapaume might have a more detailed order of battle.

Dave, thanks, can you recommend a good book on the Franco-Prussian wars that has an order of battle , Paul

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Small collection of 1870 groups welcome your views and if possible research potential, thanks, Paul

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Small collection of 1870 groups welcome your views and if possible research potential, thanks, Paul

It's possible but how likely is it to come up with the recipient? You'd have to look at all RKT who died in that area and even then you could be left with more than one possibility. I don't know how easy it would be to collate information for that search.

Worth a try though. How do you plan to proceed?

Rich

Rich, well my first port of call is to find out what FF commando was in the area, then what units were against then look at RKs were KIA in that area around that time, have you any thoughts

dante,

The inscription looks recently added. Hmm.... I think the whole ensemble is crudely constructed to deceive. Just my .02 of course.... Experts?

Regards,

Joel

Got it in an OXFAM shop so no decieving required.........or was there !!!!!

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The PLM has been put on also very crudely

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The PLM has been put on also very crudely

English silver hall mark 1909, with PLM added and crude inscription (help with translation welcome), as ever welcome your views, Paul

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English silver hall mark 1909, with PLM added and crude inscription (help with translation welcome), as ever welcome your views, Paul

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