Ceallach

Paul, Agreed. It is very tough to make an informed decision when pertinent pieces of information, provenance for example, and good quality images are excluded. The officially name Comrac medal to Vol. Yorke, where both an image and details are missing is a more shocking example. The intellectual leap one is expected to make in some cases is astonishing. Some sellers must be furious. I am also dismayed that they chose to narrow the field by removing the live auction bidding function that EBay facilitates, it certainly limits the options for offshore bidders and keeps the locals happy ! Best regards, An Ceallach

Gentlemen, The escalating price expectations for Irish medals !! http://www.jamesadam.ie/BidCat/detail.asp?...&LotRef=396 LOT 396 ? ?The Turner Medals? Provenance: * Joseph & Frank Turner: 1916 Rising Service Medals, and War of Independence Medals, each with ?Comrac? bar, awarded to father Joseph and son, Frank Turner, 10 Summerhill, Dublin. The 1916 Medals are both engraved on reverse with recipients names Joseph & Francis Turner, respectively, and with ?G? Company 1st Battalion, G.P.O. Garrison on each medal also. Purchased sometime ago by a Dublin collector directly from the family. * Harry Turner: 1916 Rising Service Medal and 1919-21 War of Independence Medal with ?Comrac? bar, awarded to Henry Turner, another member of the G.P.O. Garrison. A photocopy of a photograph of the 1936 Re-Union with both brothers identified is included in this lot. Sold as Lot 122, Whytes Auctions, 9/4/2006 Sale, on behalf of Harry?s family, when it was purchased by the present owner. * All three Turners are included in the listings in the ?1916 Rebellion Handbook.? They each served in ?G? Company in the most famous unit of 1916 Insurrection, ?G.P.O. Garrison,? under the direct command of P.H. Pearse & James Connolly Will be interesting to see what the market bears. An Ceallach

Hi Danny, I did not think there was such a thing as a "wasted trip to Dublin" !! The National Archives maintain an index of statements - approx 1700 eyewitness accounts. Browsing at your leisure may not be that far away though as the Bureau of Military History are finalising its plans for a digitisation project which aims to make all these statements available over the web with 2008 as a target date. What a great research tool, particularly if searchable. Ceallach

Regret to advise that Anthony Duignan does not show on the master list of Military Bureau Witness Statements. Unfortunately the initiative was not commenced until the early 1950's. If you could determine his area of operations it might be worthwhile checking Witness Statements from like individuals. For example if he was with say the 3rd. Batt. of the Dublin Brigade, you could view statements given by other 3rd. Batt. members who may reference him. Ceallach

Gentlemen, Eamonn O'Toole in his book "Decorations and Medals of the Republic of Ireland" states that the DSM's were issued un-named, based on his examination of some examples (pp 15 & 17). However I know of one posthumous award with the recipients name and army number officially inscribed. Do other named examples exist ? An Ceallach

Gentlemen, Another recent addition to my collection - a very rare example of the DSM 1st Class. (REVERSE) An Ceallach

Gentlemen, Another recent addition to my collection - a very rare example of the DSM 1st Class. (OBVERSE) The Distinguished Service Medal (An Bonn Serbhise Dearscna) In three classes, it may be awarded in recognition of individual or associated acts of gallantry, courage, leadership, resource or devotion to duty (other than one performed on war service) arising out of or service in the Defense Forces not meriting the award of the Military Medal for Gallantry. The DSM is a rimless medal, 34mm in diameter, in silver for the first class and in bronze for the second and third classes. From December 13, 1984 the classes were designated as ?with Honour?, ?with Distinction? and ?with Merit?. Obverse: A stylized design of the ancient Irish warrior Cu Chulainn with upraised sword standing in a war chariot drawn by two horses at the gallop. A charioteer crouched beside him whips the horses. Reverse: Plain with the inscription ?An Bonn Serbhise Dearscna? around the outer edge and the silver medal has an Irish hallmark and the maker?s initials at the bottom. Ribbons: 32mm wide in dark green with black stripes. The 1st. class ribbon has a 6mm black centre stripe. The 2nd class is green with 5mm black edge stripes. The 3rd class has 3mm black edges and a 3mm black centre stripe. Suspension: Ring affixed to the top of the medal and pin back brooch suspender in the appropriate metal bearing a design of lozenges, and hallmarked for silver. Bars: A bar may be awarded to any class of the medal for subsequent acts of gallantry or merit and the medal and bars may be awarded posthumously. Designer: Oisin Kelly Manufacturer: P.Quinn Ltd. Dublin An Ceallach

The Emergency Service Medal 1939/46 was awarded to eleven different organizations within the service, which is reflected on the reverse of these medals. One of these was for "The Chaplaincy Service". As there does not appear to be any official record of the total awarded to this service - could anyone make an educated guess ? They are reportedy changing hands in and around the Euro 10,000 range !! An Ceallach

Hi Paul, I had hoped that my example of the Military Star was not standard for the run, however your observation would appear to confirm the opposite. What a shame. It was a department design with an emphasis I suppose on being conventionally correct and it?s a pity that they chose to revisit the 1916 concept, rather than striking out. I would agree that the 1916/66 is a quality medal but I would also rank the MMG Class 1 in that category. The design of the Emergency Service Medal is culturally and interpretively interesting and a fine example of medallic art, but lacks the emotive power of the 1916 design which in my mind should be an essential consideration. Best regards, An Ceallach

Kev- another rare medal. Hopefully these postings will attract some traffic to this thread. The Military Star is awarded posthumously to members of the Defence Forces killed in hostile circumstances while on military service overseas. The awards of the Military Star are made on the recommendation of a Military Medals Board convened by the Chief of Staff. At a ceremony in Collins Barracks, Dublin on 08 November 1998, a total of thirty-six Military Stars were presented by the Minister for Defence, to the next-of-kin personnel killed in hostilities in the Congo and the Middle East. The Military Star is in the shape of an eight-pointed star, which resembles the Defence Forces Cap Badge - common to all Services in the Defence Forces. The figure in the centre is C? Chulainn - this symbolises the warrior who is killed in action or dies from his wounds. A Laural Wreath to commemorate the dead surrounds the central figure of C? Chulainn. The ribbon colours are black and purple - traditionally associated with the dead and mourning - with the Irish National Colours in the centre. The ribbon is held in place by a suspension bar with the word 'Remembrance' inscribed on it. The Service Number, Name, Date of Death of the deceased and Mission Area are engraved on the back of the Star. (Ref: John McMeekin) Regards - An Ceallach

Recently added to my collection - The Merchant Marine Medal 1939-46. One of the rarer service medals and earned the hard way. There were 58 medals issued with three bars. An Ceallach

My apologies - should read ....."to and including #83" An Ceallach

Paul, The initial batch in alphabetic order was to and including #86. There are a couple of " true posthumous awards" in the three digit range. You are to be commended for your initial published research in this area and I for one am thankful for the numismatic path you ploughed. An Ceallach

In view of the recently demonstrated propensity of scammers to drag heritage through the gutter, may it be a long day before a list of the named 1916/1921 Service Medals be ever made public. An Ceallach

This recent statement by the Irish Minister of Defence in reply to a parlimentary question may be of interest : STATEMENT BY THE MINISTER FOR DEFENCE ADJOURNMENT DEBATE ? SEANAD EIREANN 17 May 2006 The need for the Minister for Defence, in view of the great success of the recent Easter 1916 commemorations, to clarify the current arrangements for the replacement of 1916 and War of Independence medals; and if he has any proposals to review these arrangements this year. Senator Diarmuid Wilson I am glad to have the opportunity to address this matter and I thank Senator Wilson for raising it. It is not necessary for me to dwell on the importance of the 1916 Rising and the War of Independence to the nation. Together they led to the establishment of the State in which we live today and to the freedom we now enjoy. The importance of these events is also reflected in the fact that we have five military medals related to that period of our history. For the information of Senators, I will give some brief background to each of the five medals. The 1916 Medal was awarded to persons who participated in The Rising during the week commencing 23rd April 1916. Some 2,000 of these Medals were awarded. The Service (1917-1921) Medal with Bar was awarded to persons who rendered active military service during the War of Independence. There were over 15,000 Medals awarded in this class. The Service (1917-1921) Medal without Bar was awarded to persons whose service was not deemed active military service, but who were members of Oglaigh na h?ireann, (Irish Republican Army), Fianna ?ireann, Cumann na mBan or the Irish Citizen Army continuously for the three months which ended with the Anglo-Irish Truce of the 11th July, 1921. Over 50,000 Medals were awarded in this class. The 1916 Survivors Medal was created in 1966 to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Rising of Easter Week 1916. The medal was issued to those who had been awarded the 1916 Medal and who were still alive at the time. And lastly, the Truce (1921) Commemoration Medal was created to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Truce that ended the War of Independence. The medal was issued to Veterans of the War of Independence who were alive on the 11th July 1971 and who had been duly awarded the Service (1917-1921) Medal, whether with or without Bar. The Department receives requests from time to time for the replacement of lost, stolen or destroyed Medals awarded to Veterans of the 1916 Rising and the War of Independence. It has been settled policy of the Department of Defence for many, many years that replacement medals were issued on a once only basis on receipt of a bona-fid? request from the Veteran to whom the original medals were awarded. This policy was adopted in the interests of preserving the intrinsic value of the medals and to strictly limit the number of medals issued in any particular case. Although almost all of the Veterans are now deceased, the rationale for restricting the issue of replacement medals is still valid. Apart from the intrinsic value of the medals, their monetary value on the open market is also a factor. Some indication of their value can be gleaned from the recent sale by auction of a posthumously awarded 1916 Medal that achieved a price of ?105,000 on 12 April, 2006. Other 1916 and War of Independence medals, sold at the same auction, fetched amounts ranging from ?3,200 to ?14,000. While this has been the long-standing Departmental policy, I can totally understand the feelings of the family members of Veterans whose requests for replacement Medals are refused. These families feel rightfully proud of their ancestors? service and contribution to the birth of this State and would like some visible expression of it. With this in mind: some weeks ago I initiated an examination in my Department of the possibility of issuing some form of official certificate for such cases. I would envisage that the certificates would confirm that one of the medals in question had been issued to the named Veteran. If more than one medal had originally been issued, a separate certificate could be provided for each medal. Officials in my Department are currently examining a number of options, including possible designs and formats for these certificates. I am confident that this initiative will go some way to addressing this problem and I expect that the examination in my Department will be completed very shortly. On a related note, I was very pleased to be able to announce recently a substantial increase in the War of Independence pensions. I felt that the 90th anniversary of the 1916 Rising was an appropriate time to show the country?s appreciation of the major part played by Veterans in the foundation of the State. The pensions are being increased by 50% retrospectively to the 1st April 2006. They were last increased in mid-2004 when a 50% increase was also applied. I trust that I have clarified matters to the satisfaction of the House. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An Ceallach