Brian Wolfe

Hello Everyone,

Here is a photo of two howitzer sections of the late Victorian era, 1901-1902.

With the help of several knowledgeable collectors who are not members of the GMIC I have completed the research and offer the findings here.

This is most likely an artillery training school photo. The frock worn by the seated officer is as per DR 1900, the o/r's frocks are as per issue of the late Victorian era though two have scalloped flaps, all have stand collars. These variations were typical, as were some issues of the field service cap with a single button. From the shoulder badges there is no doubt that these are Royal Artillery.

The soldier reclining in the front right of the section has an "L" patch on his sleeve indicating that he is a gun layer. The two privates in the rear are holding sight/sliding level deflection tools while the oval cases on their pre-1903 belts hold Clinometers. A clinometer was used to measure inclines as well as determining the height of objects. The buckle on the '03 belt has rounded edges, these are squared and typical of RA stationed in India. The two seated corporals wear the shoulder belts to accomodate the sight, level/deflection tool which would be entrusted to them as opposed to the privates. The seated corporal to the officer's left also has a compass case to the left of his belt buckle.

The "flags" on either side of the group are aiming posts. These would be issued in pairs of the same colour. Right Howitzer sections having Red and left Howitzer sectoins having Blue. The coloured side would face the guns except, when owing to light conditions, the section commander orders "white sides" to the guns.

The two figures on the ground each appear to be holding the breech lock for the 5.4 inch B.L. Howitzer, hence this photos is most likely of the right and left Howitzer section of the later Victorian period and possibly taken in India, or soon after their return to England.

Regards

Brian

It would seem that the two last photos were too large to post together so here is the last view.

Regards

Brian

Here is a closer couple of views of the radio itself. Please remember to click on the photos for a larger, though still small, view.

Regards

Brian

Hello Everyone,

It has taken over two years to complete this display of my WS19 MKII but finally that day has arrived. The communications display has been moved to its new home in my study and the final peices for the WS 19, the protective grills, have been installed. These grills are very hard to find and most of the time you will see the WS19 installed in restored vehicles with the grills missing. The grills provided protection from falling equipment and rifle butt impacts which would break gauges and knock the knobs off the unit.

I hope you like the following photos of the complete communications collection as well as the closer views of the WS19 MKII itself.

Thanks for staying with this post to its long and drawn out conclusion. Now to start on a Universal Carrier (Bren Gun Carrier) to mount the radio in.

Regards

Brian

It was worth the wait to see the "keepers".

A fantastic collection and historially interesting.

Thanks for taking the time to post these artifacts.

Regards

Brian

Very nice, I can't wait to see what you are keeping.

Regards

Brian

If there was ever a medal that should make one nervous this would be it.

People don't realize just how tense the situation is between Pakistan and India, we're too involved in the Middle East to notice.

Thanks for posting another great medal Larry.

Regadrs

Brian

Another Police Special Duty medal with the Nagaland clasp

This is a nice example of the short ribbon. From what I understand this is how the police officers actually wear them on the unifrom.

Regards

Brian

Hi Larry,

I remember my first paper version, I though I'd been taken of by the seller at first.

They still seem strange to me but even the cloth version doesn't seem "normal" to the feel.

Regards

Brian

Hello Ross,

You were correct, at least in my view, this is an interesting specimen indeed.

Thank you for posting it.

Regards

Brian

Hi Larry,

Inserseting. I suppost it would be quite redundant to say, "You could have fooled me".

SAGongs are the experts and I would never assume to think myself more informed than they, that was not sarcasm. With the addition of the "missing" medals this would have made it an eleven place group which I think you would have been told was not likely, just on the sheer size of it. With the availability of information had this been an Indian group it would have been an easier task to determine whether it was hala of not. Going by the general "look" of the item I'd still say it was an original, not that I'm saying the folks at SAGongs are wrong. Not at all, I am just sayng that if a like group came up in the future at the right price we'd both have what would be determined as a fake group.

Regards

Brian

Wow, you aren't fooling around, these are a couple of really great swords.

I hope other members will be encouraged to post their material.

Very nice specimens.

Regards

Brian

Hi LArry,

I really like this group and have no questions as to it being authentic, though I know you wouldn't have bought it if there had been any doubt. Pakstan groups with grunge only adds to their value, in my opinion. With the number of Pakistan medals available, almost always unnamed, it is easy to throw together a fake group but ti imitate this aged look would be almost impossible.

As to the time frame of your group, a good question. The Medals Catalogue of Pakistan, while a pretty good reference, it is not an intense study of the subject. The last time I spoke with Ed Haynes must be a couple of years ago but at that time he was going to start a book of his own on the subject. You know what a indepth study of Indian Medals and Decorations he has produced so I expect the Pakistan Medals and Decorations work will be just as good. We may have to wait until that is ready for publication for many of our questions to be answered.

For now I think we have to look at your group and ask ourselves some questions. FIrst off the folks that deal in medals and medal groups are not stupid and I've found that most are quite honest. Anyone wanting to argue that can do so to themselves as I won't entertain such subjects here. If one was to fake a group why not simply add a named Independence Medal to the group or a named Sitara-i-Harb 1965 Star and thereby boosting the value a great deal. If a person was going to the trouble then make it worth the effort. Again I return to the condition. They all have the "look" of belonging together, the backing has the correct aged look and the attachment pin is nice and crooked. I say that as if I were going to fake a group I'd at least have the pin attached in a straight line. I also have to return to the value of these groups. While they are not exactly giving then away they are still not too expensive. Everything about this group rings authentic.

Congratulations on securing a great group for your collection.

Regards

Brian

Please take the lead and post some of your collection and with a little luck the edge weapon collectors may follow suit.

I for one would be quite interested in seeing a thread featuring this subject.

Regards

Brian

Hello Mervyn,

Now this is a group that a collector's dreams are made of.

Simply fantastic.

Thanks for posting it.

Regards

Brian

That was a nice find Paul, congratulations.

Regards

Brian

Helo Mervyn,

For some reason I never get tired of these being posted and this one is an excellent example of mounting a speciment for show.

Ah, for the days when these went for .99 cents with scabbard and a mint example would set one back a staggering $1.50 Canadian. Of course $1.50 was a considerable amount for a young fellow working for .35 cents an hour. Those were the days.

Regards

Brian

Very nice family keepsakes and an exceptionally nice collectables, you are very lucky to be their caretaker.

Thanks for posting them.

Regards

Brian

Hello Troy,

Good detail shots on these items. I don't collect German equipment but have always been interested and these are some details that I've not seem before.

Also, I removed your deleted posts to make your entry a bit neater.

Regards

Brian

Hello Mike,

Yet another great post.

Many thanks.

Regards

Brian

Hi Larry,

I would be interested in seeing the group. From the looks of your photos I'd say it was genuine so whether the medal "doubled up" is to regs. or not matters little (IMO) as it was no doubt done at the request of the soldier.

Regards

Brian

A known expert on South Asian medals claims that when two medals are awarded that are the same that according to regulations only one is to be worn. However, this is not the first time I've seen two of the same medal mounted up in a group. The expert I am referring to has also said that anything can happen and it will, at least twice in India (Pakistan in this case).

It is my feeling that even though the regulations may say one thing veterans could have just about anything mounted up and who would say anything? I know of one Canadian (I'm sure there were others) who added a medal to his group as he felt he had earned it yet due to one thing or another his service fell through the cracks in the reulations.

As to the clasp with the "missing" claws, I would say that this was the only way they were issued. Let's go with that and stop looking for one. That way when I find one I can show it off here and be ever so smug about being the only one with one in his collection.

Seriously, even though it would seem to be the way they were issued lets keep looking and get one posted here on the forum, I really want one.

Good hunting.

Regards

Brian

Hello Paul,

This is indeed an interesting artifact, thanks for posting it, otherwise we would not likely ever see one.

Regards

Brian

This is not a medal but it is military.

It a collar badge from my collection and I hope you can see this clearly, it is Edward VIII.

Regards

Brian

The Tamgha-i-Khidmat, Classes I, II and III are awarded only to Junior Commissioned Officers, for rendering long, meritirious or (note "or") distinguished service of a non-operational nature. [Medals Catalogue of Pakistan, Yahya Qureshi and Rafiq Kasbati, page 31]

Regards

Brian