Brian Wolfe

Hello Mervyn,

An interesting and, in its day, useful artifact. There is a whole system of fighting with canes without the blade and I would imagine that proficiency with this particular item would lend it to being quite deadly, even without the need for a secondard weapon being employed.

Thanks for posting this for everyone to enjoy.

Regards

Brian

Very nice Brian are you going for the full uniform?

Thanks for the info Dave do you know if Gibralta Police wear these?

Craig

Hello Craig,

I think I will stop at just collecting the helmet as I lack the space to display uniforms. Oh, for a private museum of my own, which no doubt the aquisition of would be closely followed by a divorce. It would be great to find a dress pattern complete with spike and chin strap.

Regards

Brian

Brian,

I'm unsure as to why you believe that the production of these helmets stopped in 1942. They are a comparatively common item of headwear even today. HM Royal Marines here in the UK wear them as part of their ceremonial uniform and all the UK dependant territory police forces (apart from Bermuda) still wear them. The Jamaica Constablulary wore them into the 1960's and the KC plates also continued to be used, again well into the 1960's.

Best wishes, Dave.

Hello Dave,

Of course you are correct and the post itself supports what you are saying. The information I was imparting was a bit jumbled and I thank you for straightening this out. I was trying to say that the British military Wolseley production stopped in 1942. Sorry for the confusion I should have been clearer. It's little things like this that generates confusion.

Thanks again.

Regards

Brian

Finally the photo of the post Independence uniform and helmet.

Thanks for taking a look at my new addition.

Regards

Brian

For some reason the plate didn't load, I'll try again.

A closer view of the helmet plate.

A few more views.

Jamaica Constabulary Force – Wolseley Helmet

A recent addition to the collection is this Wolseley helmet to the Jamaica Constabulary Force (JCF) made by Hobson & Sons, London (Limited). The King’s crown helmet plate dates to c. 1905 and under the coat of arms is written UTROQUE SERVE, which I still have to translate. The headband is of Vero’s patent of 1925. This and the fact that the production of Wolseleys stopped in 1942 helps to date the helmet itself. It should be remembered that the stocks of Wolseley helmets were “used up” until 1949 when the British Army discontinued their use. According to my sources the probable date for this helmet would be somewhere in the range of the late ‘30s to the early ‘40s. The helmet is in very good condition though it is missing the chin strap. Thanks to Mervyn Mitton and Stuart Bates for their kind assistance in researching this helmet.

As a short history, Wikipedia offers the following information.

The history of policing in Jamaica began in 1716 when night watchmen were appointed to serve the cities of Port Royal, Kingston, and the parishes of Saint Catherine and Saint Andrew. In 1832 the first attempt to establish a permanent police force began, and William Ramsay was appointed Inspector General of the police force in 1835. This force continued in service until 1865, the year of the Morant Bay Rebellion. This uprising demonstrated the vulnerability of peace and law in Jamaica and caused the establishment of an improved police force, the Jamaica Constabulary Force. The force began operation with 984 members, under the direction of an Inspector General appointed by the British Governor to the island, and continues to carry out police duties to the present day. The official JCF staff numbers 9,930 plus 55 auxiliary positions, making a total of 9,985; its current strength (as of 2011) is 8,441.

The last photo of this post shows a police officer in uniform on a post card post marked 1967. So the use of the Wolseley style helmet did indeed continue well after the Jamaican National Independence in 1962. As may be seen in the photo the later helmet varied somewhat from the style worn when Jamaica as a British colony.

Regards

Brian

Hi Frank,

Try this fellow.

http://www.worldmedals.co.uk/Rib/germrib.htm

I get all my German ribbons from him. My British I used to get from Peter Ireland but I fear he may have passed away as I can not seem to contact him, so I'll be ordering my British from the link provided here.

Regards

Brian

Is nothing sacred?

Regards

Brian

So.......I know there is a "wanted" and "sale" section on the board, but would it be allowable to have these here specific to Japanese Only items? Might be somewhat redundant, but I think it would be more to the point. I think we could do without the FOR SALE part, but the WANTED, what do yo all think?

I think your idea has merit. Personally, I seldom, if ever, check the For Sale of Wanted sections. That being the case, it would be more benificial to me if such items were in their specific catagory. I'm not sure I have the authority to carry out such a change but I know it is beyond my abilities to do so. Perhaps a PM to Nick will answer your question. For whatever reason I missed your original post so it is possible Nick has missed it as well.

Regards

Brian

Over the years I've seen several either for sale at militaria shows or in museums but I've never seen a photo os them "hot out of the oven".

Thanks for posting this very interesting photo.

Regards

Brian

My jaw drops at viewing your collection of wound badges, as I sit here with only one in my collection.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

What a great post and the range of your collection of wound badges is fantastic.

Thanks again for this top notch post Nick.

Regards

Brian

Hello Brian,

Your post (above) is a very excellence reference and a most welcomed addition to this post.

Many thanks.

Regards

Brian

Hello Zulu57,

Thanks very much for the identification, it is much appreciated.

Regards

Brian

Hi Brian

Thanks.

Will try to do something with the documents later.

Regards,

Nick

P.S. I see you forget our little chart in a chart room

Hi Nick,

No, I have not forgotten the chat, but if you are referring to me not using your name, that I had forgotten. I wrote it down, (old age and failing memory) but I am in my office early this morning and the "memory book" is in the Home Office.

Great work and I look forward to the document portion of this post.

Regards

Brian

Hello JapanX,

This is an invaluable reference. I knew there were more than one variation but so many? Fasinating to say the least.

Thank you for putting so much effort in this post, I know many of us will benifit greatlyu from it.

Regards

Brian

A fantastic collection and one you can indeed take pride in.

Thank you for showing it to the membership.

Regards

Brian

A nice group and once you have made the corrects as per Mervyn's instructions it will be a great group.

I think you did very well on the price as well, though I usually don't dwell on price, the group is the thing.

Regards

Brian

Thanks Brian.

The tight forage caps that some officers wore here left a mark on the forehead as well and once the hat came off it looked like they had under gone some mad science experiment.

Regards

Brian

Hello Brian,

Thanks for the input, unless you have worn one, as you have, others would have no way to know this. It's the kind of information I was going for when I started this thread.

Regarding forage capes:

Here there are two schools of thought regarding the forage cap. The "old" school is that it should be very tight and in time will stretch to where it is comfortable. The other opinion is, of course, to get one that is comfortable from the start. I've worked with officers who claimed that a new hat would cause a headache until it streatched out, which explains some "attitudes". Me, I don't like headaches or "attitudes" so it was new school thinking for me.

Regards

Brian

Hi Bill,

It's always good to ask if a seller can do any better on the price unless you know it is already priced to sell. Even then...why not. Always ask if a medal can be removed for inspection and weapons are never just picked up without permission. The dealers and sellers (non-dealers) range from above board to below mud-level. You always have to know your subject well.

My suggestion is that if you see something you've been searching for, know it is genuine and the price won't get you divorced, buy it. I've passed up good buys thinking I would find another and then when that didn't happen I went back and the item had been sold. Even if you see one for less just tell yourself that the one you purchased was destined to be yours. It's Karma, well not really, but it sounds good.

Oh yes, about the price and weighing it against a divorce. Look at how rare the item is and remember that lots of people get divorced but how many have that item?

Enjoy the medal fair and please let us know how you made out.

Regards

Brian

Les,

Thanks for your input into this bayonet. You bring back memories of my youth, before anything was faked (except Third Reich stuff) and there as an abundance of material at good prices.

Too bad this one is a reproduction, but better to know before it was purchased. Once again the forum has foiled the fakers, you may have saved Georg some hard earned cash.

Regards

Brian

I see what I thought was a response to a PM actually shown above. No Matter.

Here is a photo from Paul Liesling's book, "Bayonets of the World" which might be of some assistance.

Regards

Brian

These were never issued so there will be no acceptance marks.

See the forum under your post for full details of what I have found.

Regards

Brian