Brian Wolfe

A current auction on eBay.de:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230473946464

I think it might be of interest I bought this star some months ago. I showed it to some collectors and most were not confident with this star. While the star itself seems to be fine and ~1840 era, the medaillon is quite sloppy made and is of very unusual design. There were serios doubts this can be an authentic SAO star, so I returned it recently. A real Raupp made SAO star is published in Nimmergut's opus magnum II. It has a more typical design and is of very finde craftmanship - while this here is definitely not.

Caveat bidder...

Thanks for the heads up on this saschaw, you may have just saved a fellow member from making a costly error. For a change I was not watching this one.

Regards

Brian

Hi Owain,

That's an interesting hanger replacement. I've never seen this done before and I suppose it was done to commemorate the place of service by the recipient.

I wonder just how many different countries are represented on the bronze BWMs.

If anyone knows please enlighten us.

Thanks for posting your interesting BWN, Owain.

Regards

Brian

This last photo is not the best but I think you can make out the lettering.

If you have a bronze BWM I would be happy to see it (or them) and as always you are welcome to add to this post.

Regards

Brian

I should have mentioned earlier that the obverse and reverse of the bronze BWM is exactly the same as the silver BWM, only the material they are made from differs.

The next three photos are of the naming.

Hello Everyone,

I have been looking for a bronze BWM named to an Indian for some time now and thanks to a fellow member here at GMIC I now have one. Many thanks, you know who you are.

The bronze BWM was awarded to personnel in labour battalions rather than the silver medals that went to military personnel.

The number struck and awarded was about 110,000 compared with the silver BWM that comes in around 6,500,000 [numbers source Medal Yearbook 2004]. These are understandably much more difficult to come by than the silver ones. I now have three in my collection. The Medal Yearbook states that these were awarded "manly to Chinese, Indian and Maltese personnel", I still have to get one awarded to a Maltese labourer. The medals in the photo have labels so I won't duplicate that information here.

I've taken close up photos of the naming and I hope you can make them out; photography is not my forte.

Regards

Brian

Here is my non-com.

Very nice, thanks for posting it.

Regards

Brian

Thank you and you're most welcome Brian.

Would you know if these are found with original ribbons?

This one and all the others I've seen (I haven't really seen too many) have been on modern clean ribbons although they do appear to be silk as opposed to nylon.

Tony

I've seen them with very old ribbons at shows but can only assume they are original.

Regards

Brian

Very nice medal Tony and a great write up.

These are among my favorite medals od all time.

Thanks for posting it.

Regards

Brian

Excellent work Noor.

You're display really looks good.

Regards

Brian

Dear All

Does anyone have any pictures of british issue folding knives from the Boer War period. I picked up two at the weekend. One is a dark ivory colour and the other seems to be black wood. But the ivory one is smaller than the dark wood one. The dard wood one has WD and arrow and the No 4. The other only has manufacturers mark?

Cheers Mike

Hi Mike,

I can't help you there but is it possible to post some photos of the knives. I know there will be several members besides me who would like to see them.

Regards

Brian

Hi Bob,

That was a very nice find. Photos that are not "posed for" are the best.

Thanks for posting them.

Regards

Brian

What a lovely piece! In many ways, those were better times.

I'm betting on a lotus from looking at the seed pods on the side. Any idea of the the criteria for award?

Best,

Hugh

Hello Hugh,

No idea of the criteria but I am looking into it. When I got the pin I recall putting it in the drawer thinking I'd get to it later. Then the old memory decided to take a vacation on the subject and I never followed through with the research. If and when I find out I will post the information.

Regards

Brian

Hi Tom,

Where did that info come from? At this stage I disagree. The wartime awards with certainly in blackened iron, but are found in BOTH "smooth" and concave centered reverses. They typically had thin, full width, baseplates under either the hinge, the catch or both hinge and catch. These are the Knauer examples as far as I'm aware.

Further, I have a suspicion that there were wartime awards made in tombak as private purchase - those I would assign to Zimmermann based on hardware.

Brian, re your example, can you provide measurements? The reverse looks soft, the hinge looks unusual and the catchplate looks like it has been attached off-center (ie it sticks out to the reverse left). The latter is very unusual as, from what I can gather, the baseplates were attached and then hand finished to perfectly match the cross arm edges. I have a suspicion you example may be a casting.

Regards

Mike

Regards

Mike

Hi Mike,

Just went down and took a good look at my example under very good light and a magnifyer and it isn't a casting. You can see the die marks on the edges though they are not too pronounced. The size is 45mm X 45mm with the ends of the cross being 21.5mm wide. This is a bit larger that the 2nd class I have in my collection. Just to be clear the catchplate is indeed a bit off centre.

Perhaps a different manufacturer or a late-war striking?

Regards

Brian

One of my other passions.

Don't think its a rose though. Indigenous Indian flower perhaps?

Pete

It must have been a rough day as I'm not sure why I wrote "rose" as I too think it is a different flower. I'll see if I can find out what it is. Hmmm...rose...now where did that come from...?

I wonder if it is a lotus, that would be more in keeping with India.

Regards

Brian

Thanks for the replies and thoughts.

I have seen named SA Defence Medals, Canadian and I've also seen Australian Defence Medals in silver.

I personally believe either the man in question moved overseas (Canada, SA, Australia, India, who knows) and acquired the extra medal because he lost his own one or felt he deserved it as he may have served in the forces in non-operational area subjected to air attack or closely threatened for only 2 years 11 months instead of the three years necessary.

It's also possible it has just been added to the group but one thing in my mind is certain, the ribbons although all original do not look like they've been mounted/worn by a proud veteran of 2 world wars, they're too clean. Mounted by a family member after his death, a collector or a dealer? We'll never know.

By the way the letter Y is still visible on the rim.

Tony

Hi Tony,

It is not that uncommon for a serviceman to add a medal that he believed he earned but regulations kept it from him officially. My own father added a 1939/45 Star to his group. He served with the RCAF Bomber Command and was stationed in England. On several occasions they were straffed by German aircraft while on the base. Regulations stated that they were officially behind the enemy lines (my wording) and therefore did not qualify. Many of the fellows in the bomber groups added the Star at a later date.

I was not aware that Australia issued the Defence Medal in silver. That's the problem with only one or two reference books on a topic, there is always more to learn that was left out.

Regards

Brian

I bought mine for the Art Nouveau flower, before I read what was on the badge. Still after a boxed one.

Pete

Hi Pete,

I never gave the style of the rose any thought. After years of watching Antiques Road Show you'd have though I'd have recognized Art Nouveau.

Well done Pete.

Regards

Brian

Hmmmmmm Interesting Chris, both "BB&M" and "Medal Yearbook" state that these were not named usually?

Cheers,

Mike

My copy of the Medal Yearbook (2004) states that the Defence Medals were generally issued unnamed. By the way Canada issued these in silver. I don't believe any other country did so.

Also the book states that, regarding the War Medal, "The medal was struck in cupro-nickel and issued unnamed, but those issued to Australian and South African personnel were officially named. The Canadian version of the medal was struck in silver." The Yearbook also fails to state that India officially named all of their medals. Ed would have jumped all over this one, were he still here.

Perhaps the later editions of the Yearbook also left out the information regarding the naming, it happens.

Regards

Brian

I have not had it researched, so it is possible a star is missing...

but is it possible to get a Defence, War medal and Africa Service medal... without a 39-45 star?

From what I know the answer is yes. The Airforce ground crews were not included and got the Defence and the War Medal. I don't know if this also included the Arfica Star in the rule.

So ground crew would have the Defence and War Medal without the 1939/45 Star.

Pehaps someone else can comment on the Africa Star.

Regards

Brian

Tony, Kev & Graham are correct. None of British WW11 medals were named, that included all Stars and the War Medal. BBM quotes that some Stars were named to South African and Austrailian personnel. For War and Defence both were issued unnamed for all countries.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Again for the sake of being clear, by saying "For War and Defence both were issued unnamed for all countries" you are including India and South Africa as being issued unnamed?

Regards

Brian

The bottom of the box is bevelled around the edges making it look nicer when sitting on any surface. I present the view of the bottom detail to point out the attention to detail on even a utilitarian object such as a pin box. Details that were common during the Great War era and before. An attention to detail that is missing in today's slam-bam world. Today it's maximize the profit and to hell with the small details, like customer service and quality.

End of sermon.

I hope you liked my little boxed pin, it is one of my favourite collectables.

Regards

Brian

This shows the exterior of the box and the push-button catch that allows the box to open when the pin is depressed.

The box shows "age" wear but no damage.

This shows the box interior and the area where the pin rests. I really like the idea that they have made this so that the pin sits down into the box and flush with the box interior.

The interior shows a lot of age and was probably white when first made.

The reverse showing the pin arrangement.

Here's a better view of just the pin's obverse.