Brian Wolfe

Always good to welcome a fellow Canadian to the forum.

I am still sitting here with my mouth open in amazement of your skills.

Great piece of art work.

Regards and thanks for sharing these with us.

Brian

Brian - nice SC badge - numbering could be for the Special - but, probably an issue number. What does the inscription read on Alan's lapel badge - something about marketing ?

Don't know about that but when I checked out the website I got a virus alert from my virus control program.

Tread carefully, thar be monsters here.

Regards

Brian

Who would have thought...but then why not?

There is so much more to this conflict than is reflected in the history books of my youth. In fact I don't believe there was any mention of the Boer War in the history text books in any of the schools I attended. Of course I wasn't always paying that much attention.

Regards

Brian

Don't be concerned about the length of this thread, it is most interesting.

Zulu and British history are so entwined as to make one an important part of the other regarding South Africa. Please do keep posting.

Regards

Brian

Thanks, I will keep you informed. If I do go down that road, I will have everyone here to blame. Please take that as a compliment and not a complaint. It's nice to be welcomed to such a fine group of individual's even though I lack the knowledge. I appreciate what everyone has shared and taught me during the past week... I look foward to learning more.

Randy

Hi Randy,

Hmm, blaming others for your collecting, you sound like a married man. Don't worry, I blame our fellow members for about 1/2 of my purchases, the other 1/2 on a weak will.

Regards

Brian

The Nabha Akal Infantry served in Italy during the Second World War. CWGC records 96 names, most on the Forli Cremation Memorial.

Thanks for adding that information Michael. I wonder if the fellow who was awarded the Independence Medal served in Italy. I guess there's some things we'll probably never know.

Regards

Brian

Hi Alex,

What a great Order and with the original box! I'm glad you included the size as when I read it I had to take a second look and then check my rule just to realize how big it is.

Very nice.

Regards

Brian

Frank,

I've often watched the Antiques Roas Show and wondered if people who brought in rare items ever used that as a nucleus for a collection. It would be great if this is the start of a new collection.

Randy,

Please keep us posted if you indeed decide to start down that dark road of collecting.

You'll be in good company.

Regards

Brian

Thomas Fattorini - well known family of badge manufacturers with branches in Birmingham and Bradford. Judging by the style of the badge much more likely to be WW2.

And they are still in business

Fattorini

Thanks Nick, I rather thought it was WWII but only due to condition, so I was just guessing.

Regards

Brian

Here's the back of the pin showing the style of fastening device and the number 190. I wonder is this number corresponds with the officer's number? What are your thoughts? The name is just under the horseshoe shaped device.

Regards

Brian

Here is a Staffordshire Special Constable's lapel pin that just arrived today.

The pin measures 19mm in width and 29mm in height. On the back is stamped the number 190 and the maker's name. Some of the name is under the weld but what I can read is: THOMAS ?????NI, REGENT ST. BIRMINGHAM. I don't know if this dates from WWI or WWII and perhaps if I knew the maker's full name I could research along that avenue. Would anyone know the manufacturer's last name?

The enamel is in very good condition and the only issue is the stud on the back is bent. I'm not going to attempt to repair this as it is not distracting from the appearance of the pin.

I'll post a photo of the back next.

Regards

Brian

Hi Mervin

While the specials are in vogue at present a couple of pictures of badges I have just obtained the Hove Emergency is unusual and the other I am hoping someone can tell me where it is from I am guessing colonial may be Canadian what do you think Brian.

Hi Alan,

Could be Canadian but I am thinking not because we have a habit of putting the maple leaf on badges especially in the wreath surrounding the badge. It's not always the case though and that's why I say "could be".

By the way, "Specials" are always in vogue, there's just a lot of other stuff on the forum as well.

Regards

Brian

To add to and round out this post I am posting an Independence Medal (1947) named to: 2656 SEP.BARMHA SINGH, NABHA S.F. to go with the Nabha/PEPSU group posted earlier.

The cigarette card is No. 25 in the Cope's Cigaretts cards series and of a Nabha Lancer in dress uniform.

The back of the card has this to say:

Nabha Lancers are recruited from the famous Punjab district. These soldiers form part of the Imperial Service Troops, and are stationed in one of the Independent Native States in the North West of India. Like the Ramour Lancers their field operations have been so far mainly confined to India.

Regards

Brian

Other members have given lots of good information and advice, especially DON'T CLEAN the medal.

But I don't think anyone has mentioned the number of 1866 bars awarded to the St.Thomas Troop of Cavalry, which was actually 13. (Source: Ross Irwin.)

Compare this with almost 400 awarded to the 2nd Queen's Own Rifles, and you see that you have a fairly scarce medal.

This affects value, as some collectors of the Canadian General Service Medal focus on obtaining as many different units as possible and will pay a premium for a rarity....they may never see another.

Cheers,

Blackswan

The CAnada General Service Medal Roll 1866 - 70 Compiled & Edited by John R. Thyen (1988), lists 18 as being awarded the 1866 out of the total of 38 members of the St.Thomas Cav. to have received the CGSM.

Still a rare medal as far as the number issued.

Regards

Brian

The cap was made in England by Weston Cap Limited. There is some wear on the edges of the head band as may be seen in the photo otherwise this is in pretty good condition.

Regards

Brian

Hello Everyone,

I am very happy to be adding this Inspector's Hat complete with hat badge to my Staffordshire Police collection. I have been told that the braid on the cap signifies an Inspector's grade but I have no way to verify this information so if anyone knows please enlighten me. I do have a photo in a book of a Superintendent from the 1920s wearing a different style of hat but with the same braid. When I say "braid" it is realy a padded strip of cloth and not actual braiding.

The "chin strap" has the badge over it and there have been creases left in the strap that look to be original. The only photo of a higher ranking officer that I have is of the Chief Constable, featured in my "Collector's Image Gallery", and his badge (same as this one) is mounted above the strap. If Staffordshire is anything like the police departments here then there is a bit of leeway as to the exact positioning of a hat badge. I believe this item to be authentic.

Regards

Brian

Hello Randy,

I live close to St. Thomas and at one time I was a Provincial Offences Prosecutor for the municipality where I worked, the court house was situated in St.Thomas. Just to be clear, here anyone who was appointed by the municipality could prosecute Provincial Offences violations (mostly parking tickets). Anyway I used to visit local museums looking for information on the "raids" in that area with no luck. However, one place that I never tried was at the Elgin Regiment. You might try them for some information as many regiments have their own museum and archives. While this may not be directly related to the Elgin Regiment if they had access to the information they would have archived it. Funny thing is that I built wall- hung display cases for the Officer's Mess at the Regiment and never thought to ask about the archives while there.

I don't have their contact information but a quick check of the internet should get you started.

As the members have said, DO NOT clean the medal. There is a good chance that the medal and the ribbon are original to one another. I have only one of these where the ribbon is the same age as the medal as it was in a family's care from the time it was issued until it was sold to me. The family member was in financial troubles (a few months ago when I purchased the medal) and I consider it as "held" in the off chance he ever wants it back or another of his family would like it returned. I paid full market for it and that was $750.00 Canadian.

Hang onto this medal at least until you research it, then don't be quick to unload it. I would think that a medal named to a cavalry trooper would fetch a good price and possibly above market. I checked the rolls again this morning as I forgot to tell you that the total number listed in the rolls for the St. Thomas Cav. is 38. There could be a few more as not all recipients are listed but most are. Many regiments are of this size, with some as low as one (1)and some in the hundreds so this is not a common issue.

I hope this helps. If I am in contact with the Regiment and I find out more I'll post my findings.

Regards

Brian

Until you joined the GMIC I had no idea that these existed.

Wait a minute...are you making these?

Seriously, thank you for posting the Tipstaffs they are most interesting.

Regards

Brian

Brian - amazing that you've found all of these rare items within Canada. Just shows that you need to look at everything in these fairs. Your mount shows it off well. Mervyn

Thanks Mervyn, many military items came back with the returning servicemen, perhaps even more so than today, and now are turning up at antiques fairs etc. My father gave me an Italian Air Force Officer's dress dagger that he got in trade while there for two cigarettes. His crew laughed at him for agreeing to "pay" so much.

As a side story, the bomber crews flew from England to Italy and back bringing the soldiers home. Some who had been there through the whole Italian campaign would not fly but waited longer and took the boat. After the horrors of Italy they were too nervious to fly (I can't say I blame them). One hard-as-nails sergeant who did elect to take the plane home was obviously in distress over flying. He asked my father what he should do if the plane were to start to crash. My father told him to pull the red handle on the side to the chute pack. This made the fellow feel relaxed for the balance of the trip home. My father said he admits he felt a bit asamed that he had lied to the soldier as the chute pack was actually a May West flotation device. But as he said the fellow had a relaxed trip home.

My father and his crew would often buy a meal for some of the kids who were on the street in Naples when they were stopped over awaiting the next trip back home. The resaurant owners would ofter protest having these street urchins in their establishments but it was not a good idea to get pissy about these matters with the RCAF. It was such acts of kindness from their generation (from all countries) that gave us such a good name in the world for many years to come.

Regards

Brian

Hello Randy,

Your fellow is listed in the rolls as Hector McLean and is listed as qualifying for the 1866 clasp.

A very nice medal and to a member of the cavalry.

I don't know that these are being copied but being on the rolls is a very good thing.

Regards

Brian

Sorry about that last photo, I got distracted and posted it twice!

The following is a group of medals named to a soldier from the Nabha Security Forces (another Princely State). However, this was one of the States that was merged with Patiala to form PEPSU. You can see why it became important that Yadvendra Singh was the first Prince to sign the Instrument of Accession as the other Princes who were now part of PEPSU lost their power, though I understand they were still very rich men. As I said earlier PEPSU was short lived and soon (1956) merged with the Punjab State.

Check out the low regimental number for the PEPSU Forces.

I hope to be adding to this post as time passes and, as always, if you have anything you'd like to add please feel free to do so.

Regards

Brian

In 1947 under Maharajah Bhupinder Singh's son, Yadvendra Singh the Instrument of Accession was signed with India. He was the first Indian Prince to do so and he was awarded rule over the Indian state of Patiala and East Punjab States Union (PEPSU)in 1948. In 1956 PEPSU was merged with the Punjab State where it is to this day.

This brings me to a collecting point. Collecting the medals of the Princely States can cost you a Maharajah's bank account. Rather than breaking the bank you can always collect the British War Medals and Indian Independence 1947 Medals named to members of the former Princely State. While a purist would say these are not actually medals from the Princely State I maintain that they were awarded to members of that state's armed forces. Following is an Independence Medal (1947) named to a member of the Patiala Security Forces. This was just before Patiala merged into PEPSU.

Here I've tried for a closer look at the medals and awards. It's not the best but as good as I can get.

This is a photo of him in full uniform wearing all of his medals and awards, well maybe not ALL of them.

This photo is quite often the one you will find in books about the Princely States and is usually more of a full length shot. This one was cropped for the photo postcard trade.