Brian Wolfe

Considering your post regarding this being an expensive hobby I think you did alright at $180. I would suggest that you attempt to always purchase your Japanese medals etc. with their original boxes, as you have done here.  I made the mistake of purchasing some without their boxes and then later on either purchased the box or in most cases purchased the medal and box together and then placing the origial in my "surplus box", where it will probably stay until my heirs sell off the collection.

Regards

Brian

Thank you for your comment and additional information, it is greatly appreciated.  I must admit to being surprised that these were produced in the 1770's as mine has been manufactured as a percussion firearm and not a conversion from flintlock.  Possibly there were not indeed dueling pistols but rather made as "target" pistols?  If your dating is correct then I would think they were indeed made as dueling pistols.  I do like your dating much better.

Regards

Brian

Well done Dave, thanks for setting the record straight I do hope Laurence can find the information he seeks.

Regards to you both,

Brian

I would assume that the accountability number on the side would have been recorded beside the PC's name when issued at the beginning of his shift. If my assumption is correct then there would be no one constable to whom this truncheon was assigned.  Much like the police lanterns, which have been featured on this forum a few years ago, one particular lantern would have possibly been issued to different PCs at the start of their shift.

Regards

Brian

Hello,

One of the first things I noticed was that the printing and art work are upside down compaired with the examples I have seen and those in my modest collection.  I believe that the painted truncheon was the next progression after the tip staff and would have been used to show the officer's legislative authority.  Holding a tip satff or a painted truncheon "up" as their warrant card, so-to-speak, would necessitate that the printing would be the correct way up when viewed by the suspect.  Best not to put too much faith in my opinion as I am not an authority on the subject.

Regards

Brian

Hi ccj,

Thanks for sharing these with us.  I too have an interest in WWII Finnish military.

Regards

Brian

I suppose it could be a fireman's sword, however, most firefighter's bugles are actually magaphones and lack the "handle" which would denote a bugle. I think it may indeed have been an add-on but this may have been siver plate or other shinny metal option and therefore necessitiated a separate attachment.  Just an opinion with no backup proof of course.

Regards

Brian

Hi James,

A search of my books on European swords also turned up nothing concrete.  It certainly has the overall look of being German and the shape of the sword and bugle  makes me think cavalry, however the trophy of arms symbol looks a little French in design.  I wonder if this was a sword made for export to other countries rather than for use by the home nation's military.  I hope others will be of more help, that wouldn't take much as I have not been able to shed much light in the identification.

Nice sword regardless.

Regards

Brian

Hello Marc,

Allow me to extend a belated welcome to the forum.  I've been distracted for a while, therefore just looking in once in a while, and then somehow missed your post. I see the good old SMLE .303 and the FN FAL but that it for me without going to the "books" or the internet.  Rather than cheating I will submit my response and thereby refresh this post on the open forum. 

Please keep posting when you can, even though this section is not one of the more active ones it is an interesting one.

Regards

Brian

Hi Dave,

Glad to help.  The number on the mount is most likely, in my opinion, an accountability number.  The NCO shin-guntos have a number on the base of the blade and this same number can be found on the scabbard (they should match).  LIke most weapons, when the sword was issued these accountability numbers were recorded under the soldier's name.  It may be possible that the number on your scabbard mount is also stamped on the tang of the blade.  There may be a bamboo pin holding the handle on the tang which can be driven out and then you can remove the handle.  This should not harm the handle but if you try this be sure you keep track of the order in which the fittings have been assembled on the guard.  I see a spring catch on the sword to hold it in the scabbard.  Is there a corresponding notch in the scabbard? 

These swords have been copied to a great extend in China so the values have dropped on the originals somewhat (at least over here).  When I first started collecting Japanese swords there were no copies so we had life and collecting easy.  I should mention that you should not be concerned (not that you were) about weatern style numbering as the Japanese used this system for marking their weapons.

Regards

Brian

Oops, bad memory. 

I meant to also say, one of the nice features about your scabbard is that it has the leather field cover.  Again in my opinion, this makes the sword more collectable.

Regards

Brian

Hi Dave,

It looks to be the standard WWII Army Officer's shin-gunto.  It looks to be in pretty good condition from the photos.  The blades were machine made though there were a good number of hand made "family" blades mounted in these grips.  You would have to take the handle off and look at the tang to see if it was marked by the maker.  I see no hamon (wavy line caused when blade is quenched) which would lead me to think it is not an old blade.

Nice specimen.

Regards

Brian

Very nice Chris.

Regards

Brian

I find the un-named groups of Pakistani medals most interesting and much like the common un-named British (and Canadian) WWII groups represent a period of history in themselves.  Certainly one should be careful not to pay a lot for un-named groups they are well worth collecting and study.  Sadly research into any group is almost impossible.

Please keep us updated on your decision to add these to your collection.

Regards

Brian

An interesting thing about Garaj Star for Operation Black Thunder and the absence of a separate star for Operation Blue Thunder is that there was a reluctance among many soldiers to wear the Garaj Star once issued, especially for those still serving in the Punjab area.  There is a ribbon for the Garaj Star which is worn more often that the star itself but even this was not overly welcomed by many service people who qualified.  The reason is a matter that the operations were internal and against what can only be seen as "their own people", in other words against fellow Indians.  I will leave the details of the operations to you, the reader, to search out on the internet as much has been written about this period of history.   All pervious battle Stars were for actions against other nations such as Pakistan. 

The history of the conflicts between India and Pakistan, while short as far as history is concerned, is most interesting and well worth study.  "Fall out" due to the conflicts continues to the present day, much as between North and South Korea.

Regards

Brian

Hi Laurence,

David's question (thank you David) started me on a quest as I was sure I had an example in the collection, I was surprised to find I do, in fact, not have one; so much for my memory.  I thought that perhaps I could take a photo of an example from Ed's book (giving full credit of course) but was even more surprised to find none there either.  This leds me to think that it has to be quite rare indeed.  I had to search but there is mention of the Suraksha clasp to the Samanya Seva in Ed's book but it is under the Garaj Star on page 111 near the bottom of the page.

Regards

Brian

Hi David,

There was discussion regarding a separate medal for Operation Blue Thunder, however because the Garaj Star for Operation Black Thunder was so unpopular it was decided not to issue a medal for this.  This and other such operations saw a clasp to the Samanya Seva Medal 1965.  This was the Suraksha (Security) clasp.  Originally the General Service Medal 1947 was issued with the Suraksha clasp.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Regards

Brian

Has the world gone mad?  Answer: Yes......next question?

Seriously, I think people want something that was from a police officer who was "there" but not necessarily on the case of Jack the Ripper.  As a personal example, I have a Region of Peel Police forage cap (Ontario, Canada) that was issued and worn during the time of the Paul Burnardo investigation.  He is a notorious killer and I won't go into detail here.  I knew some of the officers who were on that case so in a way the cap is a reminder of them and not the killer.  I'm sure many of the Met police medals in my collection were to officers who knew of the case of JAck the Ripper at the time but then unless we are actually talking about this subject I don't view the medals or their recipients as associated with that case. 

As the "value" of my collection goes up there is still no urge to part with them...so yes the world, and I perhaps, have gone mad.

Regards

Brian

The Japanese used their rifles with the bayonet attached and were trained to shoot with bayonet in place. I suspect the problem with other armies was that they were drilled firing their rifles without bayonets afixed and when they needed to use them the additional weight threw off their aim.  I have read that the Japanese used their rifles afixed so as to be more in line with the old code of Bashido. 

Regarding the plug bayonet, I agree with Peter, however I would like to pose this thought.  Imagine the surprise when one side used the socket bayonet for the first time against a foe still using the plug bayonet.  Both sides would advance after what would seem to be the final volley prior to afixing their bayonets and then one side stopped and let fly with yet another volley being able to do so due to the construction of the socket bayonet.  Military advances often follow such battlefield surprises.

Regards

Brian

Also found on Buddhist and Hindu statues as well as used by Native Americans.

Good post and one I hope others will add to.

Regards

Brian

It's good to see you posting once again and with such interesting additions.

Many thanks for reviving this post.

Regards

Brian

Lucky grand daughter!

Regards

Brian

Hi Johnny,

Welcome to the forum. You indeed have a Zulu fighting club known as a Knobkerie or (as you know) also called an Iwsia. Our late club member Mervyn Mitton wrote extensively on Zulu weaponry and his work can be found on another section of the forum.  I would think it would go very well with your Martini Henry and would have no hesitation in displaying them together.

Regards

Brian

As with very close friends we didn't always agree but we always remained friends both on and off the forum.  He is greatly missed.

Regards

Brian

I remain in amazement, very nice work, thanks for sharing them.

Regards

Brian

Welcome to the forum.  You have the correct section to get an answer to your question, however, I can't help with the translation.  It may take some time to get the answer as we don't have a lot of members collecting edged weapons, but please be patient as I am sure someone will assist you.

Regards

Brian