Stuart Bates

More - Leinster Regiment Forage Cap 1881-1901 Oxfordshire Light Infantry Home service helmet Better leave it there. Stuart

More - 1901-1911 East Riding Of Yorkshire Yeomanry Northumberland Fusiliers Volunteers 1899-1902 4th (Lancaster) regiment Stuart

Peter, I thought it was the painkillers but helmets are Freudian aren't they? Mark, some closeups follow 1834 Pattern 6th (Inniskilling) Dragoons 1847 Albert pattern 1st (King's) Dragoon Guards 53rd Regiment Bell Top Shako Stuart

Yes, one of my early thoughts was for a diplomatic style helmet but, as you say, the plumes were removed for transit and usually had their own tin. I dismissed this idea when I tried one of my Wolseley helmets in the tin and it got as lost as the normal FSH. Stuart

Another dealer over here in Oz has a tin of the same dimensions and without any internal fittings. His explanation is - "As for the tin in the photo, it is actually for the pith helmets of the 1920's (as they are a bigger brim). The helmets were very large for some reason." This might explain the width but certainly not the height. Maybe two helmets were stored in the tin with sufficiently good packing to avoid damage. In fact, there is a photo of a helmet in the 1900 Dress regulations which is simply called "The Pith Hat" and has a 3 1/2" brim all around. It is described under the heading of "Uniform for Service Abroad" which also defines the normal Foreign Service Helmet as the main headdress, so it's not clear when the Pith Hat would be worn, although it looks distinctly unmilitary. I have the Army & Navy catalogue of 1907 and it lists a "Double Helmet tin" for 10/6. Stuart

Am I missing something here? The collection is in the billiard room or more to the point the billiard table is in the collection room. Stuart

Cavalry Infantry Stuart

I have just got hold of a British Uniform Pattern Book published in 1886 by Wm Jones & CompY , Contractors to H.M. Government &c. It has a couple of interesting things to say - Artillery Militia - The uniform is in every way the same as that for Foot Artillery, except the letter M will be worn on the shoulder cords and straps below the badges, the word "Ubique" will be omitted from the ornaments, and the name of the Division to which they belong will be in the scrolls, on helmets, pouches, &c., in place of Quo fas &c. (Foot Artillery had gold/yellow). Artillery Volunteers - are clothed exactly the same as Royal Artillery, substituting silver lace, cord, &c., for gold, with gold collar grenades. I guess this doesn't add much but thought I'd flog the dead horse. Stuart

I have been told by a curator at the Soldiers of Gloucestershire Museum that the tin was designed to hold two helmets. His explanation follows - The tin should probably have some internal fittings, viz. - a hinged shelf about half way down the body of the tin with a small rest opposite for the shelf to rest on; a lip about two inches wide, six inches long and three inches down from the top of the tin, with a hinged flap opposite. At the bottom of the tin might rest helmet fittings, other kit, etc. On the middle hinged shelf would rest a helmet, and on the lip and flap above, another helmet. Thus the top of the bottom helmet is inside the helmet above it, and the top of the uppermost helmet fits snugly inside the lid. We have several of this description but only one with what appear to be contemporary helmets, in this instance, Wolseley pattern. I don't remember any such internal fittings and I don't remember noting whether they had been removed but the above explanation seems entirely plausible. Stuart

Peter, Just printed off the Conserve-O-Gram "Caring for Silver and Copper Alloy Objects" and, yes, this is a job for specialists. Stuart

Thanks, Chris, I'll try that and keep looking for a specialist. Stuart

Thanks to all, I am trying to locate someone, through my English contacts, who specialises in such restoration/conservations. Stuart

Graham, strictly speaking my collection is not in a controlled environment but my house was designed by an architect who specializes in energy efficient housing. The house never gets too hot nor too cold and the relative humidity around here is low. I plan to get a room (not air) conditioner soon. I'll look on the net for restorers. Stuart

Hi Graham, I have sent the photo to a new contact at the Imperial War museum and to an old contact at the national Army Museum. Hopefully, something will come of all of this. Over here I don't know of anyone who specialises in such restorations but I am going to ask a couple of dealers that I am on good terms with. If necessary I would ship the chinscales to the UK where there are some specialists. Stuart

Below is a closeup of the chin scales of my 1818 pattern Heavy Dragoon helmet. Can anyone tell me what is happening to the links and what to do about it? Stuart

Hello Tony, you could very well be right. Check out http://www.1914-1918.net/46div.htm "46th Divisional Train ASC (redesignated from the North Midland Divisional Train - itself made from the North Midland Transport and Supply Column. Composed of 451, 452, 453 and 454 Companies ASC)" Also check out http://www.1914-1918.net/asc.htm Stuart

Check out this photo of a Life Guard's trumpeter which shows the cavalry version of the Foreign Service Helmet with spike of the pattern I referred to earlier. The caption says King George V but the cipher is Edward VII. Stuart http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/page5g-L...sTrumpeter.html

Does anyone know what type of headdress the large storage/transit tin would have been designed for. The photos show it against a normal Home/Foreign Service Helmet tin. It belongs to a friend and contained an Australian badged FSH of normal size so there was plenty of room! Stuart

As to the back strap the damage at the lower rivet looks like it was done when the rivet was fixed. The upper rivet is OK and should not have been affected by the lower one. Maybe the strap was just put on very badly. Stuart

Kevin, here is a photo of the rear of the cross-piece and an underneath shot showing the hook. They may be useful when you get your hands on the helmet. I guess the hook was brazed to the cross-piece but I'm no expert on this. The strap should be flattened just as it reaches the hook. As to a value I couldn't hazard a guess. Your best bet is probably eBay but I would get a valuation on the helmet plate before doing anything else. Stuart

Hi Kevin, I always maintained that the strap was off centre, it's obvious from your photos, and I suggest that this is because the hook, not being an integral part of the rear arm, would have made the cross-piece stand well proud of the helmet crown. On a kosher cross-piece the hook is a fixed extension of the rear arm. Still waiting for my camera battery to charge. Stuart

Thanks for the information on the way you cleaned up my picture. The 6 seams is good as it makes the helmet a Foreign Service one. As to the rear hook it should be an integral part of the rear arm of the cross-piece. This does not appear to be the case on your helmet and explains why the strap is off centre. When my battery is charged I'll take a photo of the back of one of my helmets. Stuart

Hey Kevin what did you do to my photo to improve it? It looks much better. Stuart

The Norfolk Yeomanry had a beautiful FSH helmet 1901-1904 for full-fress wear. It had a gilt spike on an acanthus leaf base with a dark blue pagri with (I think) 12 gold braid vertical strips around the pagri. A truly magnificient helmet. Stuart

Looking at the rear arm of the cross-piece it would appear that the hook for the chinchain is not attached, as it should be for the infantry version, and this adds weight to my suggestion of the cross-piece being a heavy cavalry one. However, I am definitely not going to try it out on my helmets. Stuart