Stuart Bates

Correction: the good conduct chevron was introduced in 1836 and I have many photographs of it's use in the Crimean War. As to the chevrons worn on both cuffs (1868-1871) I have no photographic evidence or illustrations so I do not know what form good conduct badges took during this period. Therefore, I suggest that the chevron in the photograph is, indeed, a good conduct one. Stuart

The single chevron to the right cuff could be a Good Conduct badge but these were introduced in 1833. White chevrons to each cuff were introduced in 1868 and removed in 1871. Confusing isn't it. Will try to track this down when I get back. Stuart

He could, of course, belong to a volunteer or militia unit but I haven't found a cap badge that has a fused grenade for any such unit of the period. And, Jerome, I would agree with your statement that he looks rather unlike a regular soldier except that I have a photograph of a group of the Rifle Brigade into which he would slot very well indeed. The device on the ball of the grenade did not magnify well enough to enable even a guess as to which unit so, unfortunately, I'll have to leave it there. Stuart

Eduardo, is it possible to magnify the badge even more as that will give us the regiment I am sure. According to the 1874 Dress Regulations the 5th and 104th Fusiliers forage caps had a black silk oak-leaf band, the others being "Royal" had red cloth bands except the 21st (Royal Scots) who had a diced band. Therefore, if this holds true for 1871 then we have either the 5th or 104th Fusiliers. The 5th had Gosling Green facings and the 104th blue but I guess there is no way of telling that from the photo. A gosling, a young goose, arrives into the world as a fluffy yellow object and as it matures it changes to a greenish hue, "like the colour of moss". However, the device on the ball of the grenade device is the key. Stuart

Eduardo, that's certainly a grenade badge. Got to go out and bring in the hay (literally) so will check further when I'm back. Stuart

Hi Eduardo, the photo isn't of sufficient detail to allow positive ID. My initial reaction was Rifle Brigade but the badge to the forage cap appears more like a grenade device (Fusiliers) but this is purely a guess. What I can say is - In 1855 a black leather 'expense' pouch containing 20 rounds was worn to the right of the waist belt and this was replaced in 1857 by a buff leather one, but not for the Rifles . in 1856 the tunic was changed from double breasted to single with 9 buttons and the skirts made shorter. in 1868 soldier's cuffs became pointed with the upper edge outlined in white tracing with a white chevron just below it. This chevron was removed in 1871. The facing colour for the Rifles was black but the cuffs are obviously not that. It would appear that the photo was taken between 1856 and 1871. Stuart

I can only echo Paul's comments on the Guards Museum. Whenever I am in London I always visit. It isn't a large museum but has some wonderful exhibits. For me it's the uniforms and headdress that does the trick. Well worth the effort. Stuart

As far as I have been able to establish the Natal Mounted Police wore a simple badge of the initials NMP in script form. Stuart

Correction, I meant the 1891 Dress Regulations not the 1874. OK, I modified my initial posting, I guess I was logged out because there was no option to edit (I'm new here). Stuart

Peter, the 1891 Dress regulations state that White Helmets with fittings for service abroad were covered with white cloth in six seams. The 1891 regulations also state that "white pugarees are worn with helmets in India, Ceylon, Hong Kong, the Straits Settlements, Mauritius, Malta and Cyprus". The Dress Regulations of 1900 also specify six seams and pugarees are authorised for all stations abroad. These helmets when worn with a khaki uniform could either have a khaki cover or be manufactured in khaki rather than white. I have never seen an example, drawing nor photo of such a helmet with a tartan pugaree. Does anyone know what tartan it is? It does look a little too new for the helmet. As far as I know the Natal Mounted Police wore a helmet plate and I notice that there is no evidence of any plate being worn on this one. I have more Army Dress Regulations on order so these may throw some more light on the topic. Stuart

Can anyone help me identify this US forage/visor cap. I bought it many years ago via a postal auction but have no details (not sure I ever did but it was acquired locally). It, along with a US M1895 Chaplain's Visor cap, are the only foreigners in my collection. It is stamped inside with "The Armstrong Uniforms, Chicago", has a patterned black mohair band and plain black leather peak and eagle buttons securing the gold braid strap. Stuart

Well Graham, the book arrived today and states that the Volunteers wore silver... up until 1908. But you knew this. Stuart

Hi Graham, yes, it's Norman Litchfield's book on the "Volunteer Artillery" so I guess that this topic is now closed. Never mind. I like collecting books almost as much as British headdress. Cheers, Stuart

Hi Graham, I haven't given up, rather I am waiting for a book on Artillery Volunteers to arrive from the UK. This, I hope, will give us the required information. Stuart

Graham, I got his from the Sussex Artillery Volunteers web site. Not really conclusive and I will try further "hello stuart, as far as i know the sussex artillery volunteers might have had exactly what you said, silver for the higher ranks and white for the men but there is no evidence to suggest that they had forage caps at all.all pictures show the men in helmets but i know the portsdown artillery had forage caps and they are in portsmouth which is only an hours drive away.there is a picture of the helmet plate on my website www.shorehamfort.co.ukthank you for you question and i hope my answer has been of some help, please contact me again with any other questions you might have and in the mean time i will try to look into forage caps morethanks againGary Baines"

The 1874 Dress regulations states the Forage Cap as being "Blue cloth with band of 1 5/8" gold lace, gold button and braided figure of special pattern to crown.The cap to be 3" high". Militia specified as for the R.A. but with silver substituted for gold. Volunteers not mentioned. For OR's the band would have been yellow cloth and for Militia white cloth. The 1891 Dress Regulations are as for the 1874 except that the cap is 2 5/8" high. The Militia "as for the Garrison Artillery" so the lace, button and braid would have been gold. Volunteers not mentioned. The 1900 Dress Regulations as for the 1891 for both Regular and Militia. It also states that for a cap with a peak the height is 3", without peak 2 5/8 ". The 1891 and 1900 regulations state that Volunteer Officers (this would include Artillery officers) appointed as ADCs to the Queen are to substitute silver for gold on embroidery, lace, buttons &c (1891) and ... on the forage cap (1900). This would indicate that the Volunteers had gold lace at that time. However, I have seen today a Home Service Helmet on the net which has white metal fittings so it's a bit confusing unless the helmet pre-dates 1891. I will try to get better information on the Volunteer Artillery. Stuart

Thanks to all of you for the invaluable information. I must admit that I have always neglected bands in my reading and collecting of British headdress. Stuart

Yes, Graham that is the style of Forage Cap. I was looking for info on the Royal British Legion Band but with 1,010,000 hits and 320,000 with adding uniforms to the search criterion I can't face it. I think I'll leave it there as I only collect British Military headgear. But one last thing how did you guys pick it straight away as being a musicians cap rather than an army one. Stuart

Thanks guys, it is described as a late Victorian Army Band Masters cap. I didn't know that civilian bands had the same style of cap. How did you know that is was a musicians cap, what gives that away? Stuart

[attachmentid=56119] Can anyone tell me what regiment or unit this badge belongs to. It is from a forage cap circa 1890-1900. I couldn't locate it in Kipling & King. Stuart

Thanks Jacaranda, I looked up Welsh Wigs and found that Morris site with some good information. I note that it also stated that the cap was used by the military as well as the navy. The stocking cap, I presume, was like a night cap ie a conical wollen cap with the top portion falling to one side of the head.

From the 10th October 1795, Regulations for the use of His Majesty's troops, upon their arrival in the West Indies "The Board highly approves of the Troops being provided with...also a flannel cap or Welch wig" I suspect that this could be an early form of forage or watering cap but I am not sure whether they are describing two items or alternative names for the same item