bigjarofwasps

16 minutes ago, Dave Wilkinson said:

I've no doubt a Metpol. officer will correct me, but I think they have a choice of long straight baton, metal "Asp" baton or a PR24. The traditional wooden truncheon was discontinued at various points in time depending on the force. Each force makes its own decision with regard to the weapon used.

Dave. 

Think the Asp is a PSU issue item?  I would have thought response bobbies would have the Casco? 

On 01/09/2017 at 07:44, SemperParatus said:

 

Hi Folks, bought my first police Jubilee/Coronation medals today (at $90 CAD a pretty good price I think).

 

1897 Queen Victoria Jubilee Medal named to:

P.C. 106 W.J.M.C. Maunder - 1st Divn

1902 King Edward VII Coronation Medal named to:

P.C. W. Maunder - 1st Div

 

Can anyone with archival access please assist and provide me with additional info on PC Maunder?

I understand the numbered divisions were dockyard divisions.

Interesting that the 1897 medal is engraved including his collar number. I assume this is a Dockyards Police phenomenon? 

41 minutes ago, Mike McLellan said:

Sometimes I get so wrapped up in historical trivia, that I’m oblivious to what’s going on around me.  

What type of truncheon is now being used by the Metropolitan Police? Is it the expandable steel baton? Was the PR-24 ever in general use? When did they stop using the familiar wooden truncheon? Why? Are the other UK forces on the same page? I would appreciate any opinions, regardless of how flawed they might seem.

Thanks, Mike. 

Don't know about the Met, but when I first joined up 17 years ago I was issued with a PR24 had it for a number of years before being issued with a Casco, but there is talk about bring the PR24 back?  Personally I preferred the PR24. 

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/yorkshire-ripper-hoaxer-wearside-jack-documents-set-to-go-up-for-auction-in-sheffield-443750?amp

Does anyone happen to know the current whereabouts of these medals? 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9489417/britains-longest-serving-police-officer-five-arrests-52-years/

Thought this might be of interest?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-49406231

New book out early next year about the babies in the wood case. 

Adam Hibbert was involved in this case. 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/father-of-babes-in-the-wood-murder-victims-386991

Example of an early issue rhodium plating medal, whereby the plating was prone to chipping.

Also not the small style lettering. 

Would be interested to know, whether anyone has any female police officer medals in their collections?

Don’t recall ever having seen any? 

Latest addition to my North Wales Police collection. E11R (second type) to Insp Neville YATES.

Neville died in 2018 and his medals first appeared in an auction at a Colwyn Bay auction house in 2019. They commanded a hammer price of £240.

A couple of months later they appeared on Ebay, however the group by this point was missing the 1953 Coronation Medal and the 1977 Medal.

I contacted the seller who informed me that when he'd bought them he had discovered that these two medals were in fact copies, so had taken them out of the group. A quick check of the rolls confirmed that he wasn't entitled to these medals anyway.

A further check confirmed that he wasn't entitled to the WW2 medals either.

I was however able to buy the LSGC and police badges for a very reasonable price.

I have been able to find out a considerable amount of information about this career in Gwynedd Police and later North Wales Police, which I will post on the forum over the coming days, which I hope will be of interest. 

Three of newspaper articles from 1888 involving Constable Carson. 

The first one concerning "Little Sarah" is slightly perplexing?

Would like to hear anyone's opinions on it.

Is "Little Sarah" slang for something perhaps? 

Here's a little project, I'm currently working on.

Picked this pair of medals up recently from Ebay was the only bidder and as such got them for a very reasonable price.

What I particularly like about medal collecting if uncovering the long forgotten stories. PC S CARSON Y Division is a classic example. Had he have been H Division there would have been a feeding frenzy, I'm in no doubt.................

Oh wait he was!!!!!

Not only that he certainly was involved in several rather interesting situations.....

He joined in 1885, newspaper wise there doesn't appear to be any mention of him. Then all of a sudden in 1888 he appears numerous times between April and August, fighting with drunks and being assaulted by enlarge. Then he disappears again........ was he posted from Y to H Division during the Ripper scare? Who knows, but what I can confirm is that in July 1889 he appears again, in Y Division. The article makes mention of him being in the habit of visiting "Little Sarah" in her house....... who or rather WHAT was "Little Sarah". I'll leave that to your imaginations for now. In 1892 he appears again still in Y Division. 

Then at some point between 1892 and 1901 he's posted to H Division. Wonder why? He then goes on to give evidence at the Old Bailey for two Whitechapel related robberies. 

Work in progress granted, but this is what I've put together so far................

Samuel CARSON
Born County Down Ireland Circ 1863
Joined Metropolitan Police 1886
13th February 1888 Islington Gazette 
was charged with being drunk and disorderly at Hornsey road on the previous evening. Police Constable Samuel Carson, 248 Y, stated that he was on duty in Hornsey-road on the previous afternoon, when saw the prisoner drunk and disorderly ...
17th April 1888 Islington Gazette
Finchley, was charged with being drank and disorderly in Tollington Park on the previous evening. Police Constable Samuel Carson, 248 Y, stated that the previous evening at 8 o’clock, he saw the prisoner drunk and disorderly in Tollington Park with a large ...
Islington Gazatte 23rd April 1888
Mary Sullivan, aged 36, of Goodwin Street, Fontbill Road, was charged by Police Constable Samuel Carson, 248 Y, with being drunk aud incapable at Stroud Green Road, on the previous evening.
6th July 1888 Islington Gazette 
John Wells, 10, Albert Place, Queensland road, was summoned for unlawfully assaulting Police Constable Samuel Carson, Y, in the execution of his duty in Queensland road, striking him across the shoulders with stick and on the face with ...
14th August 1888 Islington Gazette 
Clerkenwell Police-court: John Barker, aged 37, of Monsell Road, Holloway, commission agent, charged by Police-constable Samuel Carson, Y, with being drunk and disorderly, and causing crowd to assemble at Monsell-road. The prisoner said, yary sorry. bad ...
15th July 1889 Islington Gazette
... using bad language. Prisoner said she was sober and did not use had language. Police Constable 248 Y corroborated the first witness. Prisoner said this latter constable was in the habit of visiting  Little Sarah at her house, and, consequence of some ...

15th September 1892 Islington Gazette 
.. of Hornsey-road, were charged with being concerned in assaulting Police Constables Samuel Carson, Y, Mid Mowbray, 622 Y. Both showed signs of *********. Carson that the previous afternoon be was in tbe Homsey Road. He and Mowbray had come out ...

At some point between 1892 and 1901, Carson transfers from Y Division to H Division. Changing his collar number from 248Y to 378H. 

10th September 1901 
Gave evidence at the Old Bailey, in a robbery case (Whitechapel).
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t19010910-661&div=t19010910-661&terms=Samuel Carson#highlight

20th June 1904
Gave evidence at the Old Bailey, in another robbery case (Whitechapel). 
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t19040620-519&div=t19040620-519&terms=Samuel Carson#highlight

Yet again Alan, you have me GREEN with envy.

What a cracking little group and write up!!!!!

Great stuff Alan!!!

Thanks for sharing it with us!!!

Thought this might be of interest? 

https://taskandpurpose.com/iraq-commitment-medal-kickstarter-2639991583.amp.html

Kevin, have you tried the Old Bailey  website? You never know he might have given evidence at some point. I’ve discovered a wealth of information from this source whilst researching the medals in my collection. Certainly worth a try!! Gordon. 

I agree with or without the Mizen connection, £15 is a bargain of bargains!!!! The collar numbers letters and studs alone are worth that!!!!

47 minutes ago, paul wood said:

I agree with your identification of the medals. I suspect the RHS is bronze. Might be worth looking at the LSARS roll of bronze awards to see if any Malta police received one around 1890s 1900s. I suspect a few were awarded for fishing drunks out of Valetta harbour.

Paul

??? you might well be onto something there Paul. 

Wonder whether his medals still exist? 

Ladies & Gents, 

Saw this picture yesterday in the Malta Police Museum in Valletta, thought it might be of interest? 

I believe this chap is wearing the Egypt Medal & Khedive’s Star? 

Assume he must have either had previous service in the British army or navy and then settled in Malta When he was discharged? Or perhaps he was Maltese? 

His collar number appears to be 387 and he is also wearing RHS medal perhaps? Wonder with this information is it possible to identify who he is? 

Wonderful!!!!

Just wonderful am green with envy!!!!!!

Thought this might be of interest? (click on the image).

Cracking write up on PC RAVEN Alan!!

Interesting that he lived on New Union Street, PC PHIPPS lived there in 1871.

Wonder whether this was a block of Bobby addresses?

That being said could RAVEN have in fact been stationed at Bishops Gate? 

Saw this earlier on another platform, thought it might be of interest?

Noticed the medal ribbon is slightly different. 

But it is reported to be to DOD specs? Although authorisation for wear is still pending it seems. This would be a step in the right direction as the Iraqi's originally said "we" were to produce it ourselves and issue it to our troops. 

Happened across this photograph recently. 

What I found particularly interesting was the custodian helmet being worn by the chap on the right.

Not sure when the photo might have been taken?

Have found a few more tantalizing pieces of information.....

1888: 44 Prince's Block, Petticoat Square, Portsoken Ward. [City of London. Register of Freemen being liverymen from The British Library]

This is curious as according to the baptism entry they were living at 5 King's Block in 1887 and then 1890: 5 King's Block, Artizans' Street. Portsoken Ward. [City of London. Electoral Register 1890 from The British Library]. So unless they moved out briefly perhaps? Prince's Block and King's Block are next to each other with Queen's Block between them.

There's also this 1884: 20 Block B, Peabody Buildings, Whitechapel. Registered only under the name of Joseph Phipps (as opposed to Joseph Daniel Phipps) so it is not a definite that this is the correct entry [Electoral Register, St. Mary Whitechapel]. Not entirely sure about this information as there appears to be two Joseph PHIPPS living in Whitechapel in the 1881 census, so it's possible this is one of them?