bigjarofwasps

Unfortunately, it appears that because Isaac died in service, his papers haven't be retained. However given the nature of his illness, I suspect that he contracted it during the Canadian Campaign on 1836-37. 

I have however been able to ascertain a bit more about the family...

Family tree Phipp  - the name under which Isaac's death was registered. According to the tree, Joseph's mother was Charlotte Noakes who married Isaac in 1833. She remarried to William Knight just before the 1851 census. Joseph is in the 1861 census as Joseph Knight, 13. His mother is Charlotte Knight born Essex, Ongar. They lived at White Horse Yard, St Stephens, London. Four siblings for Joseph are listed.

Joseph's birth was registered as 'Phipp,' Q2 Marylebone 47.

Joseph died: 18-11-1933, Hendon, Middx.

Joseph and the Clerkenwell Bomb.

26 St James's Walk, Clerkenwell Green.
 

Joseph & Jack.................

Interesting points to note. PHIPPS lived at 8 King's Block in 1891. Was he living there in September 1888? The Ripper is purported to have fled Mitre Square his footsteps being following in that direction before being lost, via King's Block. It is alleged he left graffiti there, that was subsequently photograph by the City Police. 

Was PHIPPS involved in crowd control or securing the Mitre Square scene, we'll never know. But one thing that we can say with some level of certainty is that given that he served with the City Police from at least 1871 to at least 1891 or indeed 1897. He would without a doubt have had Mitre Square as part of his beat at some point?

EVENING STANDARD 14th DEC 1848................

Few more pieces of the jigsaw have come to light. Charles RITCHARDS is in fact Sarah's brother.

Joseph and Sarah got married on the 26th April 1868 as St James's Church Clapton (Hackney).

Joseph is aged 23 and his occupation is Porter his address looks like 26 James's Walk Clerkenwell Green. 

Sarah is aged 26 and her occupation is Service her address is unreadable Road Clapton.

But................ the really interesting thing is Joseph's fathers occupation is "Guardsman"!!

So he may well have been born in the Tower of London after all. He would have  born in 1845 and his father was still serving in 1868. There is a good chance that Isaac fought in the Crimean War? 

*** 26 St James's Walk is a stones throw from where Clerkenwell Prison once stood, which was attacked by Fenians on the 13th December 1867, was Joseph living there at the time??***

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerkenwell_explosion

Assuming that it is in fact Tower of London and not Tower of Renton. Which might explain why I can't find such a place. He is certainly listed as being born in St George Middlesex on the other censuses so this would seem to make more sense?

Interestingly in the 1871 census it appears that he's living in Union Street with his wife Sarah and young child. But of particular interest is that the census also states that a chap called Charles RICHARDS as also resident there and listed as his brother? Perhaps Joseph's mother was widowed or remarried? If he was born in the Tower of London, I wonder whether his father was a soldier? Perhaps he died during some far off Victorian period campaign leaving his mother a widow? 

Certainly something else for me to look into?

It has been suggested to me that the original 1911 census, actually gives "The Tower of London" as his place of birth? Is anyone in a position to confirm that for me?

Would this unusual place of birth perhaps suggest that he was the son of a soldier?

Is there anyway of exploring this further? Which regiment was stationed in the Tower in 1845, I assume some Guards Regiment? 

Joseph Daniel PHIPPS

Born circ 1846 Middlesex St George (in the Tower of London). Registered at Marylebone. 

The son of Isaac (2nd Btn Grenadier Guards 1826-1848) and Charlotte (Noakes). Isaac and Charlotte married in 1833.

Isaac died on the 14th December 1848 (see attached newspaper article).

Charlotte remarried in 1851 to William KNIGHT. Joseph is on the 1851 & 1861 censuses as Joseph KNIGHT. They lived at White Horse Yard, St Stephens, London. Joseph had four siblings. 

Joins City of London Police c1871 collar number 882.

Posted Bishopsgate Police Station.

26th April 1868 Marries Sarah RITCHARDS aged 26 (Joseph is 23) 
His address 26 James's Walk Clerkenwell Green (which still exists)
Sarah's address ? Road Clapton.
Joseph's occupation Porter.
Joseph's father Isaac PHIPPS occupation Guardsman. 

26 is a stones throw from where Clerkenwell Prison once stood. 
Fenian's bombed it on the 13th December 1867, was Joseph living there then?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerkenwell_explosion


2 April 1871 census - has him living at 11 New Union Street, St. Giles Without Cripplegate. [City Police Officer]. With his wife Sarah and young child. Also listed is Charles RICHARDS, sarah's brother. 

4th August 1871 PHIPPS is mentioned in the London Daily Chronicle and Clerkenwell News -
....treatement recieved that night. He had been ill ever since and unable to do duty, indeed, could not raise his arm. Joseph PHIPPS 882, saw the assault spoken of WRIGHT and DAVIES, corroborated all they said. William KERRIDGE 871 said from information..........

23rd October 1874 PHIPPS is mentioned in a newspaper report from The Morning Post - 
....or dead?? she came to her senses she gave instructions to the police to apprehend the prisoner and that night Jospeh PHIPPS 882 took him into custody, slightly under the influence of drink. When he told that he was charged with kicking his wife, he................

15th September 1879 he gives evidence at the Old Bailey, relating to coining offences at the Raven Public House 185-187 Bishopsgate Street, (4 minute walk from 182 Bishopsgate, the police station.) 

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse. ... #highlight

26th April 1880 he gives evidence at a murder trial which centered around the Railway Tavern, 15 Liverpool Street (4 minute walk from Bishopsgate Station).

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse. ... #highlight
3 April 1881 census - 31 Huntingdon Buildings, Bethnal Green. [City Police Constable].

1884: Joseph Phipps 20 Block B, Peabody Buildings, Whitechapel. [Electoral Register, St. Mary Whitechapel. 1884]. 

21st September 1884 PHIPPS is mentioned in the Lloyd's Weekly newspaper -
....Taylor in the emply of Mr PLATT were summoned for wantone driving with their horse and omnibuses on Cornhill. Police Constable 882 said at midnight on Friday the 12th instance, he saw the defendants driving thier horses and ominbuses in Cornhill at full.....

22nd November 1886 he gives evidence again at the Old Bailey, this time relating to an incident of theft at the Sir John Flagstaff public house 45-46 Houndsditch & Cutler Street, (4 minute walk from Bishopsgate Station. Also note within a few minutes walk of his 1891 address at King's Block.)

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse. ... #highlight

20th February 1887 PHIPPS is mentioned in the Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper-
....attempting to commit suicide on the 23rd January by cutting his throat with a razor, the evidence of Police Constable Joseph PHIPPS. It appeared that on the 23rd January last he was called to 28 Aldergate Street and that that a man had attempted.......

16th October 1887 Joseph & Sarah have a son called William Joseph born March 1883 and a daughter called Sybil Grace, born 1880. Baptised at St Botolph, their address is given as 5 King's Block. 

1888: 44 Prince's Block, Petticoat Square, Portsoken Ward. [City of London. Register of Freemen being liverymen from The British Library]. 

1890: 5 King's Block, Artizans' Street. Portsoken Ward. [City of London. Electoral Register from The British Library 

9th March 1890 - PHIPPS is mentioned in the newspaper The People Newspaper 
...pieces, and at a Police Court with being drunk and assaulting thirds wits so much injured that he shortly after Police Constable PHIPPS 882. She had been tens wards died times convicted and the alderman said he hardly two serious accidents have happened..

1890 Electoral Registers - 5 King's block, Artizans' street, London

5 April 1891 census - 8 Kings Block, St Botolph Aldgate. [Policeman].

1901 now retired and living in Bromley 

1911 living in Marylebone. Place of birth given as Tower of London. Occupation Night Watchman. Married and aged 65. 
No service papers exist with the City of London Police relating to PHIPPS. Only 60% of all their records survive. 

Death: 18-11-1933, Hendon, Middx.



No service papers exist with the City of London Police relating to PHIPPS. Only 60% of all their records survive.

Here's another article to pretty much the same effect.

It's interesting how the facts have become so convoluted.........

Recollections of Det. Insp. Robert Sagar, City of London Police.

As you know, the perpetrator of these outrages was never brought to justice, but I believe he came the nearest to being captured after the murder of the woman Kelly in Mitre-square. A police officer met a well-known man of Jewish appearance coming out of the court near the square, and a few moments after fell over the body. He blew his whistle, and other officers running up, they set off in pursuit of the man who had just left. The officers were wearing indiarubber boots, and the retreating footsteps of a man could be clearly heard. The sounds were followed to King's-block in the model dwellings in Stoney-lane, but we did not see the man again that night. 
Daily News, 9 Jan. 1905.

Sagar is not unique in his confused recollections. Pretty much every bobby who claimed to have been involved in some capacity in the case, who has put pen to paper, has gone on to document a catalogue of errors. It all makes for ripping reading but is frustrating to say the least, for us to try and confirm facts some 130 odd years later. 

I believe it was Frederick WENSLEY who claims to have come up with the idea of rubber on the soles of their boots? 

Found this photograph of King's Block (building on the left), then made the below images which I thought might be of interest? 

Bit of additional information which might prove interesting reading..............

The Seattle Daily Times, Saturday 4 February 1905, stated that just before the discovery of Catherine Eddowes body on the morning of the 30 September 1888, that at 1:45 a.m. …..a police officer met a well-dressed man of Jewish appearance coming out of the court. Continuing on his patrol he came across the woman's [Eddowes] body. He blew his whistle, and sent the other officers who rushed up in pursuit, the only thing to guide them being the sound of retreating footsteps. The sounds were followed to King's Block in the model dwellings in Stoney Lane, but the search got no further. On the wall was found scrawled in chalk, 'The Jews shall not be blamed for this.'

Hope there's no objection to me jumping on the WATKINS bandwagon here with a little contribution that I'm currently tinkering with.

It's by no means anywhere near completed, but I thought it might be interesting at this early stage none the less?

Police Constable 882 Joseph PHIPPS City Police. The first thing that maybe noted just from this initial information is his collar number, one up from PC881 Edward WATKINS. Perhaps it was wishful thinking on my behalf that PHIPPS and WATKINS had joined up together. But I believe now this might not be the case. WATKINS joined up I understand on the 25th May 1871 having served briefly before hand in the Met. As yet I have no exact join up date for PHIPPS. But it appears that on the 1871 census which was taken I believe on the 3rd April 1871, PHIPPS was already a Police Constable and living New Union Street in the City of London. A stones throw from Bishopsgate Police Station. In 1881 he'd living in the Huntington Buildings which used to be located on Bethnal Green Road, again very close to Bishopsgate Police Station. By 1891 he's living in the King's Block Aldergate, which used to be located pretty much between Bishopsgate Station and the infamous Mitre Square!! Evidence enough that PHIPPS was pounding the beat in and around Bishopsgate at the time of Jack. If he wasn't dispatched to Mitre Square on the 30th September 1888, he would without a doubt have known where it was and patrolled it at some point during his career. 

More evidence of a Bishopsgate connection, I hear you say?

In 1879 he gives evidence at at the Old Bailey, relating to an incident at the Raven Public House (185-187 Bishopsgate Street, not 4 minutes walk from 182 Bishopsgate, the police station. 

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18790915-764&div=t18790915-764&terms=Joseph PHIPPS#highlight

Note - NAOMI MARTINDALE . I am female searcher at Bishopsgate Street Station—I found silver money on both prisoners.

1880 he gives evidence again this time regarding a murder which centered around the Railway Tavern, 15 Liverpool Street another 4 minute walk from Bishopsgate Station.

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18800426-405&div=t18800426-405&terms=Joseph PHIPPS#highlight

1886 he gives evidence again, this time relating to an incident at the Sir John Flagstaff public house 45-46 Houndsditch & Cutler Street, again only a 4 minute walk from Bishopsgate Station. You will also note within a few minutes walk of his 1891 address at King's Block. 

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18861122-16&div=t18861122-16&terms=Joseph PHIPPS#highlight

Now I maybe just trying to convince myself here, the City of London only being a square mile and in fact PHIPPS could have been stationed at pretty much any station within the City. But the evidence I have put together so far, surely makes a very strong case for him being stationed at Bishopsgate and therefore would without a doubt would have known WATKINS, if only by an acknowledging nod of the head. But I'm in no doubt their consecutive collar numbers wouldn't have gone unnoticed by the pair of them? 

He also appears in the following newspaper articles....(these are a work in progress)

Friday 23rd October 1874 Morning Post ....or dead?? she came to her senses she gave instructions to the police to apprehend the prisoner and that night Jospeh PHIPPS 882 took him into custody, slightly under the influence of drink. When he told that he was charged with kicking his wife, he................

Sunday 9th March 1890 - The People Newspaper  ...pieces, and at a Police Court with being drunk and assaulting thirds wits so much injured that he shortly after Police Constable PHIPPS 882. She had been tens wards died times convicted and the alderman said he hardly two serious accidents have happened..

Friday 4th August 1891 Clerkenwell News - ....treatment recieved that night, had been ill since and unable to do duty, indeed could not raise his arm Joseph PHIPPS 882 saw the assault spoken of Wright and Davies, all corroboruated all they said William Kerridge 871 said from information....

Any thoughts or arguments for or against my hypothesis most welcome..................

1 hour ago, G Hanson said:

Moor Lane

Bridwell Place

Cloak Lane

Tower St

 

Thanks G, found this as well which might be of assistance to future forum users with an interest in this topic.

City of London Police Force

The City Police Force comprises 1 Commissioner, 1 Chief Superintendent, 1 Superintendent, 14 Inspectors, 92 Sergeants, and 781 Constables. The following is a list of divisions, with addresses of stations:

Cripplegate ~ More Lane
Snow Hill ~ Snow Hill
Bridwell Place ~ Bridwell Place
Cloak Lane ~ Queen Street
Tower Street ~ Seething Lane
Bishopgate ~ Bishopgate Street

Ladies/Gents anyone an authority of the City of London Police? Can you tell me how many stations they operated in the Victorian period and where they were? 

I'm aware of

HQ at Old Jewery Lane.

Bishopsgate.

Snow Hill?

Wood Lane (was that in existence in those days?)

Seething Lane.

Any others? 

On 09/04/2013 at 18:13, Odin Mk 3 said:

The Discharge Register shows PC Thomas got a Class 2 Certificate (Very Good) so clearly his Sergeant didn't catch him smoking very often.

That's why it's captioned "A sharp lookout" Jim ?

I think the Welsh rank naming only came in around 2006? 

1 hour ago, Dave Wilkinson said:

At the time of amalgamation on 31st March 1947 they had 45 men.

Dave.

 

47 is pretty small I guess, but HUGE compared to Merionethshire Constabulary, which had a mighty 35 (all ranks) ? 

49 minutes ago, Dave Wilkinson said:

I doubt it. The rarest examples of PLS&GC medals will be those showing Chief Officer (Ch.Offr..) rank. A number of the non-Home Office forces were headed by a Chief Officer (as opposed to Chief Constable). The number of medals issued bearing that rank would be very few. Possibly no more than a dozen or so. 

Dave.

Interesting concept Dave. But I wonder how many of the Chief Officers obtained their 20 years before going into that rank, so their medal would be named to their rank at the time of qualification. Where as the Welsh rank naming can be obtained at any time if that make sense. Also Chief Officer in Welsh would be unique I would guess? 

2 hours ago, QSAMIKE said:

The SAC was originally formed to be a national police force just like the Royal Canadian Mounted Police but it did not work out that way due to many many reasons...…  BSAP were mostly used in Rhodesia and of course the Natal Police in Natal......

There is a book written by Jim Wallace called No Colours No Drums which is the history of the Canadians in the SAC after all the 2nd in Command was Sam B. Steele, ex N.W.M.P and CO of Strathcona's Horse......

Mike

 

 

 

Thanks Mike,

Have discovered I had this book in my library, not read it before (had it years) will give it a blast hopefully it'll give me a bit of an insight into the BSA Police's role in the campaign. 

37 minutes ago, QSAMIKE said:

I would say yes...…   Just take a look in the ABW site and search Constabulary...…  Mike

Thanks Mike!!!

In layman's terms whats the difference in roles between, the SAC, BSA Police & Natal Police, during the Boer War? 

On 06/05/2019 at 16:30, G Hanson said:

The fact that there is a possibility they could be Victorian is enough to make me happy.

Do you think the leather is from the collar of the tunic?

I agree cracking example, 681 would appear to be a very high number mind? There was only 465 officers in H Division in 1887 and only 475 in 1902. Perhaps swap the 6 and the 1 around ?

Have been trying to find a pair of such numbers for years, the studs are like hens teeth, I've never found any EVER!!!

Whether the leather was part of the collar contained inside the collar itself  to give it shape seems feasible....

Either way, very nice thanks for sharing it with us!!!!!!!

On 16/12/2013 at 14:53, Ross Mather said:

 

 

The Neath Borough Police ceased to exist after 1947. It was amalgamated into and became 'N' Division of the Glamorgan Constabulary. The helmet is marked to Police Sgt. no.5 Devereux......who joined Neath Police prior to WW1. To the best of my knowledge this is the only surviving helmet from that very small Welsh Borough force.

 

 

Any idea how many officers Neath Borough had in it's ranks? 

Interesting thread!!!

Is there much scope for researching medals to the SAC? 

2014, was it really that long ago!!! Where does the time go? 

On 09/09/2014 at 17:02, MetPolice said:

Hi all,

As per the above title, does anyone know anything about the 'Police and the East End of London' exhibition in 1974??

If someone has the booklet for the exhibition could they post a scan her, please??

Mervyn has said in a another post :

We had a formal lunch at Bethnal Green station - in our basement - the guest of honour

Bishop Huddleston, The Commissioner, Dep. Comm, and all 4 Asst. Comms.

Bethnal Green Police Station, isn't very big!

Must have been pretty cramped down there in the basement?