bigjarofwasps

1 hour ago, paul wood said:

Approx 2.8 million were struck in 1909, however the figure you give 3,000 million dollars was probably more than the GDP for USA that year so I suspect the sky research team were talking out of an orifice that wasn't their mouth, even $3 million was a vast amount of money in those days and would have weighed about a ton. I suspect if the ship was sunk in 1909 I suspect there would have been $20 of earlier years included in the consignment, certainly if there were all 1909 and $3 million then it would be 6-7% of the mintage of $20 for 1909.

Paul

Thanks Paul, I thought that might be the case. Another thing I've considered is why such the big secret and if it was such a big secret for whatever reason why not just use gold bullion, or indeed coins from another source such as the English gold sovereign? To me the programme seems to be another along the same lines as the curse of oak island, which will drag on for a few seasons without finding anything, because there's nothing to find, well nothing to find to the amounts that they claim is on there.

According to wikipedia...........

There are many rumours that the Republic was carrying gold and/or other valuables when she went down. One rumour is that she was carrying gold worth $250,000  in American gold coins to be used as payroll for the US Navy's Great White Fleet.Another theory that she was carrying money for the relief effort for the 1908 earthquake in Messina, Italy. A third theory, put forward by Captain Martin Bayerle, is that she was carrying $3,000,000 in gold coins as part of a loan to the Imperial Russian government. All of these values, of course, are in 1909 dollars when gold was $20 per ounce. Today, the coin values would bring the recovery to at least many hundreds of millions of dollars, and some experts^[who?] have estimated that the recovery (with proper marketing of the recovered coins) could approach $5 billion or more, making the Republic salvage the largest treasure recovery of all time.

http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/israeli-hiker-finds-rare-ancient-roman-gold-coin-160314.htm

Why do I never find stuff like this!!!! 

On 3/11/2016 at 22:57, David Vivian said:

Thanks for your reply. So Commandant wasn't so much a rank but more of a position.

Certainly by today`s standards, perhaps in days gone by it was different? 

If I'm honest I'd never heard of this ship until the other day, when I happened to watch the first episode of a new series about it which has not long started on Sky. In the programme they claim that the ship contains $3,000,000,000 worth of 1909 gold eagle dollars. I'm curious to know why they believe that the cargo contained only newly minted 1909 double eagles as apposed to any other gold dollars that would seem to have been more readily available, also just how many 1909 gold eagles were minted, would there have been enough to provide 3 million dollars worth of coins for the ship and for general uses without these coins being super rare?

Not sure whats happen to the pictures above? 

But here's a couple for future reference.

On 2/23/2016 at 04:56, David Vivian said:

Hello everyone. 

Can anyone tell me what the rank of Commandant was equivalent to in the regular police. Also any further information on Roland Walter Perrott would be appreciated.

Thank you.

I don't think it's got an equivalent rank per say to a regular police officer. I think there more with regards to administration of the Special Constabulary. For example a Commandant wouldn't attend an incident take command and control, if say there was a regular Inspector on scene, or indeed a regular constable for that matter. However they are a big wheel in the Special Constabulary world, if that makes sense? 

I thought it might assist other collectors if I added the initials of all these officers to avoid confusion...

R. Sygrove
A. Collison
T. Whittle
H. Ball
W. Dingle
J. Douglas (Res. Insp)
W. Baxter
J. Reid (Det. Insp)
C. Taylor
A. Macer
R. Ricketts
W. Perry
F. Instance
W. Dauncey
A. Sellors
G. Cosgrove (S.D Insp)
H. Morgan (S.D Insp)
E. Barrett (Det Insp)
J. Olive (Superintendant)
W H. Parker (Chief Insp)
G. Lovie (S.D Insp)
D. Richards (S.D Insp) 
 

Hope that helps?

On 3/1/2016 at 19:05, Brian Wolfe said:

Has the world gone mad?  Answer: Yes......next question?

Seriously, I think people want something that was from a police officer who was "there" but not necessarily on the case of Jack the Ripper. 

Regards

Brian

I agree and can see the appeal. Interestingly the £415.55 group, relates to an officer although he was in H Division for the Golden Jubilee had moved to another Division (W Division), 12 months before the Whitechapel Murders started. I suppose it could be argued that he had worked the patch and perhaps went back briefly as a reinforcement. But we'll never know for certain. Also as he joined up prior to 1889, then he won't have any service papers, so research of him will be somewhat limited.  If I can put this into context, I have recently added a J Division group to my collection and have been able to ascertain that he was working from Bethnal Green station during the Whitechapel murders and I didn't splash out a quarter of what the buyer of the H Division medals did. In fact I've actually got two medal group to J Division, with a "Ripper connection" if you like and two H Division groups for just slightly afterwards and even combined, don't come to what the above buyers paid. 

I have been giving this some thought, now putting aside the heinous crimes he committed in the 40's & 50's (and indeed his petty crimes of the 20's), in 1916 he stood up to be counted and served his country during the Great War and was indeed wounded for his efforts. Which leads me my next point, I wonder whether indeed his first victim was in fact his first victim? I'm not saying that everyone who served in the trenches went on to become s serial killer, but I wonder whether he did in point of fact "claim" his first victim in the trenches?  I further wonder what the percentage of soldiers who did serve in the trenches actually killed someone? The final thought that I've considered is, whether in point of fact we are selling him short, could it be that the third medal he appears to be wearing isn't a 1914/15 Star at all, but is in fact the WW2 Defence medal, I'm not sure when the ribbon for this medal was authorised for wear, but could it be a possibility   if the photograph was taken right at the end of his "career" in the police in 1943?

17 hours ago, Dave Wilkinson said:

His record card indicates that he joined the PWR on 1st September 1939 and he resigned 28th December 1943. He was posted to "X" Division and attached to station "XD". There is no warrant number or collar number shown.

Dave.

Cheers Dave, maybe it's just as well his collar number & Warrant number aren't shown, just in case they were used again!!! Just out of interest what does "XD" relate to, is that a particular station with X Division?

14 hours ago, Deelibob said:

Spot on Dave, he was a Paid Police War Reserve and as such not entitled to Special Cons Faithful Service medal. As far as I am aware he is only entitled to a First War Medal and Victory. It is possible he  may  have worn a 14/15 star ribbon when not entitled.(There is certainly more than two medal ribbons on the bar he wears.) He served with the Duke Wellingtons Yorkshire Regiment and was invalided out due to Mustard Gas poisoning. He is/was entitled to a silver wound badge.

 

 

That was going to be my next question, with regards to a Special Cons LSGC. I wonder if his medals and war badge are know to exist? 

Judging by this photograph he appears to be wearing a WW1 trio, but he doesn't appear to have gone to France until 1916? Also is it known what his collar number was? I wonder whether it was ever used again? 

On 3/4/2016 at 13:12, Craig said:

Don't forget this Special when it comes to infamous old bill

 

Well I didn't know that!!!!!

Just done a bit of digging on the internet and have discovered...

At the beginning of World War II, Christie applied to join the War Reserve Police and was accepted despite his criminal record, as the authorities failed to check his records. He was assigned to the Harrow Road Police Station.   At the end of 1943, Christie resigned as a Special Constable. Shortly after this first murder.  Ruth Fuerst, 21 (August 1943).

He also served in France, during the First World War. I wonder what happened to his medals? 

Why do medals sell for such silly money, just because they have a H Division connection? I could see if they were to men who served and are documented to have been involved in the Ripper case, but these two examples have no connection whatsoever other than being in H Division. I have a couple of medals to J Division both of whom served in Bethnal Green at the time of "Jack" and I didn't pay a quarter for them that these two have sold for. 

Would be interesting to know how much City of London Police medals sell for?

It should also be considered that any medals to any Division during this period have a possibility to have been seconded to H Division, would be interesting to know of any confirmed examples of this and how much they sold for? 

Apologies to you, if you have bought these medals, it's in no way meant to be disrespectful to you. But I would be interested to learn your rational. 

13 hours ago, Jerry T said:

A NATO medals is then not considered a foreign medal?

 

Not for the UK, not sure about other countries. (UN awards are included in this as well). 

8 hours ago, Jerry T said:

My Question has nothing to do with the actual mounting, however, I am rather confused about the order the medals are mounted. It seems to be somewhat random. A NATO medal in first place in the second bar, and last in the 3rd bar. Surely, they cannot both be correct. 

Campaign medals are mounted in the order they are earned. It's only foreign awards that are mounted last. 

The Tottenham Outrage 1909, occurred on N Division and the vast majority of the officers involved came from that division, HOWEVER, it also appears that two officers from J Division were also involved, PC222J Bleadon & PC442J Wilson. Am curious to know how these two officers became involved and what their role in the outrage was, can anyone shine any light on this for me? 

Steve, have just checked my medals and I see what you mean now, I have the same issue with my Iraq & GSM medals. Can't see anyway round it, other than to wait until I get my LSGC  and then I'll be able to have the 6 medal overlap mounting....alternatively just push them apart gently seems to do the trick, without having to remount them all. To be honest it'll be kinder on our pockets just to live with it....

Quick Google search, appears we're not alone......................

They look okay to me mate?

I don't think you have to start over lapping your medals until you reach 6.

I've got 5 and didn't have to overlap them?

You might find with 5 that, you have to have two rows when you just wear the ribbons? 

15 hours ago, Bert69 said:

Hello all, to follow on from the topic of GSM08, I am a recipient for service in Somalia in 2013, the medal ribon is to have the clasp 'East Africa', even though the award has been auctioned I believe the actual medals are yet to be minted. 

'Actioned' sorry, predictive text..!

That's very interesting Bert, although the medal has yet to be issued, I assume you wear the ribbon on your uniform. Would it be possible to get a picture of the new ribbon so we can see what it looks like? 

Don't quote me, but I seem to recall that Indian army GSMs were minted in India and are slightly thinner than the British army GSMs which were minted in the UK.

To me your RAF GSM seems genuine, HOWEVER, the scratches/dints on the RAF portion, would need closer inspection, possibly renamed? But I'm no expert. 

3 hours ago, dante said:

Quote from the British medal Forum Nov 2015

"The Defence Instruction and Notices (DIN) outlining the institution of the GSM 2008 has been published. For those with access to DII, it's 2015DIN09-022. As the DIN is yet to be published in the public domain (without wishing to seem precious), I'm not in a position to add much more, other than to say the ribbon is a combination of green and purple and that the approved clasps (5 thus far) are broad geographic areas rather than specific operations and locations".

Nothing further heard...

Thanks Dante, it's all very hush hush isn't it? 

Any theories on what the clasps will be? Other than the afore mentioned Libya, current Air ops Iraq and I suppose Syria. I can't think of anything else HM forces have been involved in? Anti-pirate ops perhaps? 

The distinct lack of information on this medal, that is in theory some 8 years old now, suggests to me that it's been shelved? 

What I also find interesting is that no medal has been announced for Iraq/Syria yet and as I'm sure everyone is aware this `campaign` has been rumbling on your years now. 

Interestingly if we cast our minds back to Libya in 2011, the UK started combat missions long before NATO became involved and yet there was no GSM 2008 or indeed any UK medal issued for that campaign at all. Instead it appeared that the powers that be just sat back and waited to see what NATO medal was issued then just left it at that? 

19 hours ago, Antonio Prieto said:

Please see the new URL

http://www.coleccionesmilitares.com/medallas/MilOpsMedals.pdf

 

Can't see the new GSM 2008? I wonder whether it's a myth, as surely by now it would have been awarded for something?

Anyone heard any updates re this medal? Or indeed anything about a medal for Op Shader that has been rumbling on for well over a year now?

It appears that in early 1974, Nilsen sold his General Service Medal for £8. So it might well still be out there somewhere?