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Posts posted by bigjarofwasps
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apparently.
I have spoken to a number of guys who have these CABs and most were support troops (clerks, computer techs, truck divers) who were in a combat incident or two (shot at) /and/or got mortared.
The mortar one is a bit lame I think, & by that I mean if a camp is huge like say SLB in Basra was, rounds could land on camp, but be up to a mile away from where the clerk was (he might not even hear them), would this still count.....surely not???
What about the other example, where a lone Iraq fires one pistol round at your vehicle as you drive passed....contact with the enemy?? I assume said incident would have to be called in on the radio in order to count, that being the case I wonder how many incidents like that go unreported, and how many are `beefed` up a bit by rear echelon units, in order to qualify...or am I being a sceptic?
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Nope-true story. Only the guy was a Sergeant (well, he is now) and in a National Guard unit. I spoke to him 2 months ago at the Maine Boy Scout Jamboree. He is now the local recruiter and lives @ 15 miles from my house.
His one other "action" was to watch the aftermath of a suicide bomber after he'd been shot running towards the guard post at the base.
Hi Ulster, nice to hear from you again.....
So basically its down to the discretion of your commander at the time, whether he/she deems that you participation in an incident, and the incident in general is worthy of said award? There appears to be no hard & fast rules?
Gordon.
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Remember, you have to be attached to a specific unit to qualify for the CMB. If you aren't (attached to a CSH for example) and were in that situation-you would get a CAB, not the CMB.
You have to be engaging or be engaged (i.e. bullets coming at you, mortars incoming from the enemy, etc.). So post care would not count.
A medic could only have a CIB and CMB if he were infantry and medical MOS qualified and came under fire. I would assume two separate instances would dictate two awards.
I believe the reg states that you can only wear only one "group one" badge. This would include the CMB, CIB, CAB, EFMB, EIB. So if you have both, you can only wear one. I will double check on this.
Roger all that Armydoc, it all becomes clear!!!!
But I wonder if you have any opinion as to what `actively engaged` might mean?
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Thanks for the information, Armydoc. Also welcome to the GMIC.
Yes I agree, welcome to the forum Armydoc, your a wealth of information, I hope you enjoy visiting the forum as much as we have enjoyed reading your replies!!!!!
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I must say, I`ve made a monster here!!
I was amazed to here that a medic can qualify for a CAB & CMB. But it does make perfect sense I suppose, as I know of loads of medics that were out of the ground, got into scuffle, but didn`t treat anyone. Thus I suppose they would qualify for a CAB. What would happen if they ended up earning both somehow could they wear them both or would they have to choose, I suppose if they somehow won two of one and one of the other they`d wear the one with the star, but what of the other. I asume that would just be on there records or something?
But what do you have to do to qualify for a CAB as a medic? Would the example where one pistol round had been firded at you, by an angry Iraqi as you drove passed on top cover count, or would it have to be a sustained burst of AK, or the like? I assume you have to have infact returned fire?
What about attending a post IED incident, where you treated wounded, but all the `shooting & loud bangs` had finished...But a further return to shooting could in theory happen again at anytime?....CMB, CAB or nothing.
Either way, I must say that this CAB seems to be a good idea, and puts pay to all the other elements of the military that aren`t infantry, but involved in a combat none the less!
a monster indeed....
Have a look at this...
It appears you can be awarded all three, but it doesn`t state whether you could wear all three at once?
It also goes on to state..
c. Soldier must be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement.
....but doesn`t stipulate what actively engaged might mean...anyone got any ideas?
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Oh now that makes more sense...and by that I mean the whole SS DSC thing, yeh I`ll have that. The way it was worded in the book gave the impression that he got two gongs and a promotion all for the same act.
CMB, now I think I`ve got my head round this....so basically if you did a tour of Iraq & a tour of Afgan, because they both come under the war on terror you only get one award. If there was say a further chapter...Iran?? then you`d get a star? Or would that still count as the war on terror. Where as WWII & Korea where clearly two seperate war thus two awards....you lost me a bit with the Vietnam thing, I`m afraid.
Now in the book My War, he author states that the CMB was issued purely for being a medic in a combat zone is this correct? By that I mean is it issued on mass to every medic whose served in Iraq/Afgan, or do you have to have been exposed to a two way range, is there a limit to how much fire there was or weapon type?...example a sing shot from a pistol whilst on patrol, a few mortars in the camp, an IED? Also what happens if your a medic with an infantry squad that gets into a fire fight but now one is injuried, whats happens then?
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Johnny Come Lately
by Steve Earle
I'm an American, boys, and I've come a long way
I was born and bred in the USA
So listen up close, I've get something to say
Boys, I'm buying this round
Well it took a Iittke while but we're in this fight
And we ain't going home 'til we've done what's right
We're gonna drink Camden Town dry tonight
If I have to spend my last pound
When I first got to London it was pourin' down rain
Met a Iittle girl in the field canteen
Painted her name on the nose of my plane
Six more missions I'm gene
Well I asked if I could stay and she said that I might
Then the warden came around yelling "turn out the lights"
Death rainin' out of the London night
We made love 'til dawn
But when Johnny Come Lately comes marching home
With a chest full of medals and a G.l. loan
They'll be waitin' at the station down in San Antone
When Johnny comes marching home
MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and letting her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home whh me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war
Now my granddaddy sang me this song
Told me about Londen when the Blitz was on
How he married Grandma and brought her back home
A hero throughout his land
Now I'm standing on a runway in San Diego
A couple Purple Hearts and I move a little slow
There's nobody here, maybe nobody knows
About a place called Vietnam
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During Vietnam the First Marine Division had the "three wounds and home" policy...when I was in the Marines I remember talking to my CO about it (he was wounded three times, sent home, went back and was wounded again)...He was an infantry platoon/company commander. Also, I have a friend who was awarded the Purple Heart in Iraq when a piece of equipment rolled onto him and broke his foot and ankle during a fire fight...the award was very contentious in his unit. He was MEDEVACed and given the PH in the hospital, but his CO later had it revoked. When he retired, the Navy gave it back to him....
Curious about the Iraq award, how can it be issued revoked and then re issued? I also assume that a `combat injury`, has to be something that the enemy have fired at you? American awards seem to be so fickle with no rule of thumb... I`m currently reading a book (Right Face)where by the author claims to have been awarded the Silver Star promoted to 1st Lt and put in for the DSC all for them same action. Another book I recently read (The Cage) the author claimed to have won the Silver Star & Bronze Star in a week!!!! In the UK you`d be lucky to get one medal at the end of your tour! Goin slightly off topic again, but what the score with CIB & CMB I`ve seen a lot recently with 1 & 2 stars on them, I understand the criteria for there award (I think), but how does the stars work..... I mean do you get one per tour in a combat zone, or like the above medals example could you be awarded a CIB badge on day then a week later get a star and so on? We also only get one campaign medal per tour, in the US you seem to get 2+...example Iraq & war on terror medal. Don`t get me wrong I think its great I wish we could come out of basic training with 2 medals, do a tour and come home with 5!! Thats really `Johnny come lately` stuff!!!
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Two UK military personnel have been killed and two seriously injured in an RAF Puma helicopter crash near Baghdad in Iraq, defence officials have said.
The deaths on Tuesday take the total number of UK troops killed in operations in Iraq since the 2003 invasion to 173.
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So just who was the most decorated American soldier? You`d think the answer would be easy.....
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_was_the_most...merican_history
But it seems not!
Then you could argue.... does say the acts required to win 2 DSC & 10 SS say out rank a MH?
& whilst I on about it, who was the most decorated British soldier? Could you say one of the double VC winners or the SAS guy who won 4 DSOs, or is there someone else......?
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Audie Murphy's Military Award List
Military Service Number 01 692 509
Medal of Honor
Distinguished Service Cross
Silver Star With First Oak Leaf Cluster
Legion of Merit
Bronze Star With "V" Device and First Oak Leaf Cluster
Purple Heart With Second Oak Leaf Cluster
U.S. Army Outstanding Civilian Service Medal
Good Conduct Medal
Distinguished Unit Emblem With First Oak Leaf Cluster
American Campaign Medal
European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal
With One Silver Star, Four Bronze Service
Stars (representing nine campaigns) and
one Bronze Arrowhead (representing
assault landing at Sicily and Southern France)
World War II Victory Medal
Army of Occupation With German Clasp
Armed Forces Reserve Medal
Combat Infantryman Badge
Marksman Badge with Rifle Bar
Expert Badge with Bayonet Bar
French Fourragere In Colors of the Croix de Guerre
French Legion of Honor, Grade of Chevalier
French Croix de Guerre With Silver Star
French Croix de Guerre with Palm
Medal of Liberated France
Belgian Croix de Guerre 1940 Palm
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Billy Walkabout, decorated American Indian veteran, dies at 57
Walkabout received the Distinguished Service Cross, Purple Heart, five Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars. He was believed to be the most decorated Native American soldier of the Vietnam War, according to U.S. Department of Defense reports.
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Others may address this better than I, but he is surely the most self-advertised US soldier ever. A lot of self-serving fact-stretching here.
Cheers Ed, I`ll give the book a bash.....
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Much mythology -- for which there are some less delicate terms -- surrounds Hackworth.
Ed, tell tell.......
Surely he must be the most decorated American soldier that ever served? I was going to ask for his book for Christmas, but would very much like to hear your views, before I do.
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Found this thought it might be of interest.....
Slighty off topic, but its interesting none the less.....
Author explodes myth of the gunmetal VC
By Catriona Davies
The belief that every Victoria Cross, Britain's highest military honour, is made from cannon captured during the Crimean War is nothing more than a myth, says a book marking the 150th anniversary of the medal.
John Glanfield: ?There was an accepted legend and
no one had researched whether it was true?
John Glanfield, a historian and author of Bravest of the Brave, to be published next month, claims to have exposed the truth about the metal used to make the awards.
It has long been believed that all 1,351 Victoria Crosses awarded have been made of bronze taken from two Russian cannon captured at the siege of Sebastopol and kept in the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich.
The Victoria Cross was instituted on Jan 29, 1856, as the supreme gallantry award and the first to recognise servicemen's brave acts regardless of rank.
The priceless lump of metal, of which there remains enough for a further 85 crosses, is kept in a vault at the Royal Logistic Corps in Donnington, Shropshire. It can be removed only under guard.
By studying historical documents and scientific analysis, Glanfield claims that the Woolwich cannon were not used until 1914, 58 years after the first Victoria Crosses had been produced.
He also says that the precious ingot disappeared during the Second World War, so a different metal was used for five crosses awarded between 1942 and 1945.
"I was astonished," he said. "There was an accepted legend and no one had researched whether it was true. When something has been the belief for 150 years it becomes accepted as the truth."
In the book, he says: "No aspect of the history of the Victoria Cross has been so hotly debated or disputed as the origin of the metal from which it is made.
"The truth has become fogged by time, myth and misinformation. Part of the myth is that every cross has been cast from the two [Woolwich] cannon."
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The cannon in Woolwich are Chinese-made, although they have often previously been cited as Russian, and Glanfield says that their origin is an "impenetrable mystery".
He said there was no evidence that they had been captured at Sebastopol, the last big battle of the Crimean War, as was often stated. "The Chinese pieces were not the only, or even the first, to contribute VC metal," he said. "An earlier gun provided bronze from the start.
"When the metal ran out in December 1914, the Chinese cannon took over. The football-size cascabels [knobs] were sawn off at the neck and melted down for VC production, starting not in 1856 but nearly 60 years and some 560 crosses later."
Glanfield cites unpublished X-ray analysis of crosses, carried out at the Royal Armouries and the Australian War Memorial in Canberra, showing that those awarded before 1914 were of a different metal from those afterwards. It is only those since 1914 that match the Woolwich cannon.
Furthermore, an estimated 224lb of metal has been taken from the Woolwich cannon. Glanfield said that to make 12 crosses with a combined weight of 10oz or 11oz required 47oz of gunmetal because of the wastage in the process. Therefore the 224lb would have been enough to make the 810 crosses issued since 1914, but not those previously.
Of the disappearance of the ingot in 1942, he said: "The wartime transfer of the VC block from Woolwich Arsenal with tens of thousands of dispersed depots may have rendered it impossible to trace." He said the War Office covered up the crisis at the time.
Glanfield, who began writing after he retired as a director of the Earl's Court and Olympia exhibition centres, almost turned down the opportunity to write the book because he thought there was nothing new to learn about the Victoria Cross.
However, he changed his mind because he had been inspired by VC holders he had met in his earlier career.
He said: "I found all of them quiet, self-effacing and considered their acts of gallantry to be just a job. These are supermen and I relished the prospect of writing about them. Researching the book was a humbling and awesome experience."
Glanfield decided to research the origins of the crosses themselves, a project that took eight months, because previous histories had concentrated on the recipients and their deeds.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...12/28/nvc28.xml
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Cheers Guys, thats of great help!!
Any idea what the chances of researching such an award would be?
The relative I`m trying to research was 30003053 SSgt Eugeniufz Kozik, his medals & photo would suggest that he won it twice! Not sure what campaigns he fought in in total, but he was certainly at Monte Casino, and was in an Armoured unit of some kind. I`ll try and scan his picture, and see if I can post it. Leave it with me.
His Cross is the 1920 type.
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Hi Guys,
Can anyone tell me what the Polish Cross of Valor is equal to in British Awards?
Also is it possible to obtain the citation for these awards, for the WW2 period?
Many thanks in advance,
Gordon.
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Can anyone shine any light of this statement for me?
"While the U.S. Army does routinely review retroactive individual award
recommendations for members of the Armed Forces of the United States, as required by U.S. Federal law and Army policy.My office is still under the impression the British Government does not allow its Soldiers or veterans to receive retroactive foreign awards."
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These days, it seems the medal is used pretty frequently as an award for allies and friends, where the standard seems to be rather higher than the standards employed for US troops.
http://candle_in_the_dark.blogspot.com/200...01_archive.html
"Better to Deserve Them AND Have Them or Your God Damn Right It's Sour Grapes!
I think the worst part of the Army Awards System is the fact that anyone can put anyone in for an award. In Iraq we all received a "blanket" commendation with the same citation. I was put in for 2 ARCOMs one with "V" and both were kicked back. Most of us in Iraq were turned down for at least one real decoration for actions in combat. The sad part is that this week we had a battalion awards ceremony and about 120 awards were given out. About one third were ARCOMs and for all but about 10 achievement medals were given out.
The point of this bitter rant is that none of these guys did anything in a play-play exercise that we didn't do FOR REAL in combat.
Yes, I am pissed that I wasn't put in for an award, but my squad leader and I come from an older Army where you weren't given an award for doing your job.
I know guys who literally saved a life but weren't put in for an award because it was said that's the medic's job. Yet an E-2 11B gets an AAM for clearing a room well in a play-play exercise.
I know what you're all saying, but when you really look at it if we didn't get decorated in no ###### combat then these kids shouldn't get an award for showing up to the game just because this is an unpopular war and we want to inspire them to stay in.
By the way, it's NOT better to deserve them and not get them."
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Three Danish officers received Army Commendation Medal
On 28 February 2005 kaptajn Philip Borreschmidt, kaptajn Jesper K. Pedersen og kaptajn Thorsten C. Lossin participated in a convoy to Baghdad with an American officer from the Illinois Army National Guard. An IED (Improvised Explosive Devise) exploded in front of the first vehicle in the column, which resulted in the vehicle rolling over. Two American officers from MND CS (Multinational Division Central Southern Iraq) were seriously wounded in the accident.
On 26 June 2005 the three Danish captains received the American Army Commendation Medal for their professionalism in securing the accident site and participation in evacuating the wounded American officers. Shown receiving the medal are: Kaptajn Philip Borreschmidt, kaptajn Jesper K. Pedersen og kaptajn Thorsten C. Lossin.
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If you look at the production runs on all of the state quarters. Collect them for pleasure but forget about the ones you find in circulation doubling in value anytime soon unless they have some-sort of mint-produced defect. SPEND THEM otherwise.
The Indiana quarter was a joke. A race-car? You'd think they would have had something about "Indians" on the "Indiana" state quarter...
There is a difference between the designs for the "walking" liberty quarter and half-dollar. Walking liberty quarters are more commonly referred to as "standing liberty" quarters.
Yeh, I agree some of the designs are a bit lame, lucky these are in a minority, and good designs certainly make up for the others short fallings, in my opinion.
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The odd thing with these is that coins with "chop" marks are degraded because of such markings. It's really hard to find some dates in this series of coins.
That is interesting, you`d think that the chop marks would add to the value? Like with Maria Dollars...
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I actually spoke to a member of my local MP company who was sporting his CAB yesterday. He got his for repeated exposure to mortar attacks (@ 20 rounds total) over a one day (!) period in 2004. That was his total exposure to combat in his year's tour in Iraq.0
Purple Heart
in United States of America
Posted
Right I think that sorts that out...?? Interesting that a medic attached to the SF would get a CIB & not a CMB?
Also that you could wear the CAB & CMB/CIB?