bigjarofwasps

Hi,
I`ve been informed, that there is a new medal now being issued for Op Telic, has anyone got any details on it??
BJOW.

I suppose as explosives sniffer dogs, and to guard the camps.

4. What Op Telic number are we up to know?
5. What Op number, did you have to serve on to qualify as a Gulf War Veteran? Or is it a case of Iraq conflict Veteran? Surely they`ll be soldiers who served in rear echelon posts who got the medal and bar, but never heard a shot fired in anger, and they`ll be soldiers, who there first tour, saw service in Camp Dogwood, or with those RMP`s who were killed, surely there must be some, format set out to cover this. I know of guys who served in Cyprus during the 1990/91 conflict that got a gong, and living in married quaters with their families, and had nothing what so ever to do with the war, and just carried on day to day, as they would have done, if the war hadn`t been on. Also a guy who served for months during the build up, but was able to go home just before the 4 days fighting started in order to get married, so got the gong but not the bar, and finally, I know of loads of guys who served in both or either conflict, who didn`t do anything except sit and play cards, and get bored (quote) who got the medal(s) and clasp. It just appears a little unfair, to me, maybe there should have been no clasps, like the SA medal, or maybe set battle clasps, eg, Basra, etc, and to qualify you had to have served in the combat area, like the criteria for Hitlers Crimea shield.

I`d very much like to hear anyone else`s view on this.

While I`m on this new OSM seems another one open for abuse, e.g You could have a Regiment say the Paras who were heavily involved in Sierra Lionne, but say did bugger all in Afganistan, all a seller would have to do is change the ribbon, and you could double the value of it? Just a thought??

BJOW.

Hi,
Can anyone answer these questions for me?

1, What is the correct name for this medal?
2. I assume that the bar, gives the dates of when the war was on, howver, it now appears that although the war is over, the fighting is still going on, how does the clasp/bar stand then, are there more bars to be issued, will the Black Watch get a bar, of some description.
3. How long do you have to serve and where in order to gain the medal?

Cheers,
BJOW.

Yes I know what you mean, but I bought it for a bargain price, and sometimes its just nice to have the medal in your collection.
Its all the luck of the draw isn`t it, the whole hobby I mean, sometimes you find out loads of info on something like a WW1 Victory Medal, and then something like a Crimea Medal, you can`t find out anyhting.
But its all good fun!!!

Me too!!!!
Yes I have his 1887 Medal, its one of my favourites!!!!

No one can, it is a puzzler isn`t it.
I`m told it might be some sort of First Aid Medal?? But can find no details or reference to it any where.

:food-smiley-004:
Smashing thank you very much, I`ll give them a bell, If I turn anything up I`ll add it to the topic.

His medal

I recently bought a GV1R LSGC, to Insp Reginald Brow, of Kilmarnock Constabulary. Thinking a relatively senior Officer, would be quite easy to research, I began by contacting Archives Dept, at Glasgow Town Council. They informed me that they had looked through their records for Police Personnel, and could not find any record of this Insp. They also tried Ayrshire Archives and again no luck.
Can anyone suggest anywhere else I could try?

Kenneth was awarded his Police LSGC in December 1968. I have the original letter sent to him, congratulating him, and informing him of the award. It has a piece of ribbon attached by paper clip, however, I do not recognise the ribbon, it certainly isn?t the Police LSGC ribbon, can anyone shine a light on what it might be??

I would also like to hear from anyone who can tell me about the 1st Btn involvements, prior to Op Market Garden, and after.

Police Constable Kenneth Arthur Strange British Transport Police
Kenneth was born on the 15th March 1919, in Manchester. He enlisted in the Grenadier Guards as 3532597 on the 16th October 1939, aged 20 years 168 days. Was 5` 10? tall, with grey eyes and brown hair.
He was posted to the 1st Battalion, and served with them as a driver (wheeled) through out the war.
From what I can gather, as he never spoke about the war, he appears to have served most of the early part of the war in Britain, he certainly was in the country on the 15th November 1941, as he married Ena on this day. I do know that he was definitely present with the Battalion during Operation Market Garden, and I assume he remained on active service till the end of the war.
He left the army on the 27th May 1946. His character described as exemplary.
He is entitled to the 1939 Star, France and Germany Star, Defence Medal, War Medal and Police Long Service and Good Conduct Medal.
Kenneth joined the Police, on the 8th July 1946, aged 27. His collar number was 779, but appears to have been changed later to 413.
His height is given as 5`10 ??. Medical class A.
During his career he attended several courses, including a 2 day Civil Defence Course in November 1953. He also attended the Police Training School, at Tadworth between 2nd March and 29th March 1952.
Kenneth served at the following stations,
Manchester Victoria 8th July till 25th November 1946.
Manchester Central 25th November 1946 till 7th May 1951.
Manchester Victoria 7th May 51 till 21st March 52.
Manchester Central 21st March 52 till 5th October 53.
Deansgate 5th October 53 till 5th March 54.
Manchester Central 5th March 54 till 16th Feb 58.
London Road 16th Feb 58 till 16th Oct 60.
Ancoats Goods 16th Oct 60 till 10th Dec 61.
Manchester Central 10th Dec 61 till 1st Sept 1973.
His start salary was ?620 in 1946 and when he left in 1973 he was earning ?2196.
Kenneth was awarded the Long Service and Good Conduct Medal in Dec 1968. He retired on the 23rd May 1974, age 55.

Police Constable Benjamin Turner Metropolitan Police.

Born 28th July 1880, Celwood Common, Danehill Eats Grimsted, Sussex. He was employed as a Labourer prior to enlistment, and was no married. He was 5` 8 1/2? tall, and weighed 11 stone and 4 Ibs. His chest measurement being 35 inches. Fresh complexion with brown hair and brown eyes. He resided at Rose Cottage, Chelwood Common, Danehill.
Joined 18th Nov 1901, posted to V Div PC 385 (Wandsworth), 16th Oct 1903 posted to X Div PC 574 (Kilburn). Spent the remainder of his career in X Div, have several pay increases. Being dismissed on the 1st August 1919.

He was dismissed from the force as a result of the 1919 Police Strike.
Police Special Order,
The following message was wired by Commissioner to Divisions at 12:54 am 1st August 1919, and is now published for general information.
The commissioner regrets to announce that a few men of the force have this day, at the instigation of the Executive of the National Union of Police and Prison Officers, so far forgotten their duty to the state, and to the force to which they belong, as to withdraw themselves from duty. Up to midnight 31st July-1st August, 240 men of 17 Divisions have absented themselves from duty. The Commissioner has confidence that the force as a whole will stand by their duty to the state and to the obligations they have voluntarily taken.
But it must be clearly and distinctly understood that the provisions of the Police Orders of 30th May 1919, still hold good, and that every Officer who withdraws himself from duty will forthwith be summarily dismissed from the force, and thereby forfeit all pension rights and other benefits.
Loyal Police Officers can count on the fullest support of the Commissioner and the Government.

In accordance with the previous notification conveyed to the force in Police Orders of 30th May 1919, and special order issued at midnight 31st July - 1st Aug , the following Police Officers who have either refused duty or withdrawn from duty are dismissed from the Force, from the date inclusive, with pay 31st July.

240 names including that of PC Turner.

Entitled to the 1902 & 1911 Coronation medals.

Richard Hughes 1st Btn Royal Sussex Regiment & Metropolitan Police.

Was born in January 1868, in The Parish of St George in the East London. Prior to enlistment in the army, he served as a porter. He joined the army on the 20th March 1880, aged 18 years and 3 months. His height being 5` 6?. His complexion as fair, his eyes blue and his hair light brown. Religion Church of England. He gave his next of kin as his father Thomas Hughes 290 Roman Road, Old Ford Road, Bow, London.
Hughes entered the army as a Private in the 1st Btn Sussex Regiment 43rd Bde at Guernsey on the 26th March 1880, he saw home service from 20th March 1880 to 3rd October 1881, then overseas in Cyprus 4th Oct 1881 to 8th Sept 1882, followed by Egypt 9th Sept 1882 to 11th Sept 1885. He is entitled to the Egypt Campaign Medal clasp ?The Nile 1884-5? and the Khedives Star. He was present during the Relief of Gordon at Khartoum.
1 Sussex Regiment?s involvement being as follows?..The Nile Expedition was a campaign less against man, than against nature and time. It began in late 1884, with the intention of relieving General Gordon at Khartoum. The campaign started slowly and was hampered with problems from the outset. The Sussex Regiment mounted on camels, animals that most soldiers of the Queen were unfamiliar with. It took time for the troops to learn how to control these beasts, but after much training the troops were ready. Sir Herbert Stewart was in overall command of the Desert Column, comprising of several Regiments, the Sussex being just one. On the 30th December Stewart and the column rode out into the desert. On the 14th December 150 men of the Sussex Regiment, were left to guard the wells at Jakdul, the remainder of the Regiment continued with the column. Two days later the enemy was spotted, but was not engaged, instead the column made camp, building a small rampart or zariba, from stones, rocks and thorn scrub, by night fall this zariba was only 2 feet high, the rear most part of the camp, was protected by the camels saddles piled up, along with stores boxes. It was very cold that night and the camp got little rest, any light attached a hail of bullets from the enemy. On all sides could be heard the noise of the tom-toms. As dawn broke on the 17th harassing fire thickened, as men moved about trying to get warm, a quick breakfast of bully beef and biscuits was eaten. Casualties began to fall including 5 Officers. Stewart decided that rather than wait for an attack he would take the offensive. Leaving the wounded, the baggage and most of the camels, behind guarded by a party of the Sussex, he formed a square and advanced. On the 17th January the battle of Abu Klea, was fought, but given that Hughes hasn?t got this clasp, on his medal, it is unlikely that he fought in it. The Regiment however, fought bravely during this battle and gained it as a battle honour.
On the 19th Jan 1885, another engagement was fought at Abu Kru, however no clasp was awarded for this action. The action, was fought in order to gain access to the Nile. The column intended to drink from the Nile that night. They formed a marching square, and advanced under support of the guns and fire from the zariba. The tom-toms could be clearly heard once more, and their flags streaming. The square advanced, occasional halting to fire its volleys at hidden enemy rifleman. As the ridge was approached the enemy rose up, preparing to charge. The square halted , the men cheered and volleys began to crash out from the double ranks, as the horde started down the slope They came at great speed houses and banners at the front. They got within 400 yards volleys firing continuously hundred fell, mowing the Arabs down like grass. Cool discipline and accurate fire prevented the close-quarter fighting as at Abu-Klea. The enemy broke, and the day was won, but at a cost of 23 killed and 98 wounded. Further more the men had been under fire, marching or working in exhausting conditions for three sweltering days and chilly nights with little rest, limited food and rather less water.
The Nile reached, the next step was to reach Khartoum, the Sussex?s roll in this was to supply 20 men, to board the steamers Bordein & Telahawiyeh. Mind full of the importance Gordon had attached to red coats being visible among the relief force, the Sussex were kitted up in red coats supplied by the guards. Khartoum was finally reached on the 28th, but it was to late, Gordon was dead and Khartoum lost.


Hughes, then returned to England, and on the 1st December 1885, he became part of the 1st Class Army Reserve, his character being described as Good.
He joined the Met Police on the 2nd May 1886 posted as PC379 C Div (St James), however, on the 2nd July 1886 he was posted as PC42 F Div (Paddington), following a disciplinary matter, which resulted in him being fined 10 shillings and severely reprimanded and cautioned. (I have not being able to ascertain the circumstances which culminated in this punishment.) Hughes remained at F div, until the 7th Oct 1890, when he again found himself in hot water, on this occasion he was posted to R Div (Greenwich) as PC 425, his punishment being again severely reprimanded, cautioned and transferred to another Division. He was reported to report himself at Blackheath Road Police Station at 10 am on the 8th Oct. (Again I have been unable to discover what he?d done to merit this punishment).
Shortly after this on the 13th August 1892, Hughes re-enlisted in the army with his old Battalion, serving with them at home until his final discharge on the 12th August 1896.
Hughes was entitled to 3 medals, Egypt 1882, Khedives Star and 1887 Jubilee Medal.

Police Constable Joseph Daniels Metropolitan Police.

Joined 17th May 1886, posted to C Div PC 387 (St James), 10th August 1888, posted to J Div PC 223/PC 502 (Bethnal Green) 20 days before the murder of Polly Nichols, at Bucks Row. 15th August 1890 posted to E Div PC259 (Holborn). He received a pay increase on the 23rd May 1891. Then on the 23rd May 1892, he died on duty, from choking to death on his own false teeth, whilst effecting an arrest. A local paper, The Holborn and Finsbury Guardian ran the following story??.
The Danger of False Teeth
On Wednesday evening at St Clement Danes Vestry-hall, Strand, Mr John Troutbeck, the coroner for Westminster, held an inquiry into the circumstances attending the death of Police Constable Joseph Daniels 259E aged 27 years who was killed early on Sunday morning whilst taking a prisoner to Bow Street Police Station. Superintendent Steggles of the E Division, was present, Joseph Daniels a registration agent of 9 Meeting House Lane, Peckham. Identified the deceased as his son, lately resided at Jubilee Buildings, Waterloo Road. Sometime ago he had erysipelas in the face, and the divisional surgeon ordered him to have some of his teeth extracted and replaced by false ones. These he was wearing at the time of his death, PC 379E Alfred Smith, said that on Sunday morning at about 12:20 he was in Kemble Street, Clare market, taking a prisoner to Bow Street Police Station. A crowd of several hundred persons had assembled and an attempt to rescue the man was made. Witness blew his whistle and in response the deceased came running up. He took hold of the prisoners other arm and they had only proceeded a few yards, when the witness missed the deceased, and on looking round saw him lying on the pavement. Another constable came up and witness went oh his way. PC350E William Stewart said that he was on duty in Newcastle Street when he heard the whistle blow, and on going to Kemble Street saw the two Constables with a man in custody. Witness broke through the crowd, and then he saw the deceased lying on the ground. He immediately undid his collar and sent for an ambulance, on which he conveyed the unfortunate man to the hospital. By the Coroner: the deceased was not knocked down, kicked or otherwise assaulted. Dr Eric Law Pritchard, house physician at Kings College Hospital, said that the deceased was dead when he was admitted. He made the post-mortem examination, which revealed that the deceased, was an exceedingly healthy man. Just about the larynx witness found a set of false teeth impacted, which had produced suffocation, the cause of death. The teeth were of a very inferior make, no doubt they became loosened through the deceased running, and an inspiration drew them down his throat. The jury returned a verdict of ?Accidental Death? and added that they thought the deceased was over anxious to do his duty.

Entitled to the 1887 Jubilee Medal.

:food-smiley-004:
Hi,
I`m thinking about starting to collect, Victorian Met Police Helmet Badges. I`ve seen repro ones which appear to have the Bobbies Number on them, in the design. Is this the case with real ones? How avaialble are they, and how much do they cost??

BJOW. animal

Geoffrey McCarthy Beville, was born in Naini Tai India, the son of Col. C H Beville, Indian Army. He was educated at Bedford and later became a coffee planter in Coorg. In 1923 he married Violet T Russell, the daughter of a local G.P. Sadly Violet was killed during an air raid on the 16th August 1940, when she was out walking her dog on Farley Common, Westerham, the bomb landed close to her car and both Violet and the dog where killed by the blast. This all occurring just yards from her house. Geoffrey remarried in 1948, but sadly his second wife died in 1953. Geoffrey or Bronc as he was known locally was a keen sports man, if not a particularly gifted one playing cricket, golf amongst other sports. He would regularly get bowled out at cricket for a duck, and would always come up with some creditable excuse for this.
He served during the Great War In the Mysore and Coorg Rifles, he also served as a Special Constable for 40 years, being involved in the General Strike in 1926, and finally retiring due to ill health on 6th August 1944. Bronc is described by people who knew him as `a rather stern man` and `an odd sort of character`.
He died aged 72, in about 1964.

Hi,
I`m trying to find out more about PC Bolton. I know he served during WW2, and was stationed at the Police Station, North Sunderland, Sea Houses.
Is this Police Station still there??
Is there a museum or archives Dept I could contact, to find out more??
BJOW.

Hi,
Anyone know anything about Wigan Police? I`m trying to find out more about Sgt Clifford Hamilton, he served during WW2.
Is there a museum or archives dept, that I could contact to try and find out more?
BJOW

Yes, there on the left hand inside back page on the Oct, issue. Does that make sense? Will try and scan them and attach below.
No sorry can`t get the system to accept it, but the add in Medal News shows a picture of them.

Battle of Britain Medals for auction with Warwick & Warwick

I?m not a collector of WW2 medals, however was interested to see this ground come up for auction, but judging by the picture of these medals in medal news, they look like modern replacements, am I right in thinking this. If this is the case, will they really sell for ?3000, surely if these are modern copies there must be something additional with them in the form of paperwork or something? Has anyone got any views on this?

Hi,
Sorry couldn`t attach picture, it must be to big, but if anyone wants a copy then please email me.
I hope someone has the medals to these Bobbies out there, its always nice to put a face to a name.
No idea what the RAF guys were doing on this course.
Is a Sdr Ldr higher the a Flt Lt, what would these ranks be in the army?
BJOW.

Lancashire Constabulary.
CID Course.
PS Carter Cumberland & Westmoorland
DC Harper Leeds City
DC Booth Birmingham City
PC Harbridge Leics & Rutland
PC Cook Isle of Man
DC Walters Glamorgan
PC Shenstone East Suffolk
PC Tinnion Carlisle
PC Sincup Shropshire
PC Thorne Somerset
PC Rafter Hertfordshire
DC Hewitt Lancs
PS Raynes Salford
PC Dixon West Riding
PS Mills Swansea
PC Godfrey Monmouth
DC Delvin Durham
PC Camfield Bolton
DC Rothwell Lancs
DC Kirwin Lancs
PC Boyles East Riding
PC Attenbourgh Derby
DC Jones Preston
DC Barningham Essex
PC Laker Worcester
PC Gray West Suffolk
Flt Lt Griffiths RAF
Sqd Ldr Hart RAF
DS Prescott Lancs
Insp McCartney Lancs
ACC W.J.H Palfrey Lancs
PS Barton Lancs
Flt Lt Squires RAF
Flt Lt Mountjoy RAF

Hi,
I recently bought a picture of Detective Training Course 25, 12th Jan 53 to 28th March 53.
If anyone has any medals to any of the guys who took part in this course and would like a copy, then please let me know, and I`ll email you one.
I will try and scan & post it, if I can get it to work, likewise list on the guys who are on the picture.
More details to follow.
BJOW.

Dear All,

That`s better, sorry about that.

I have tried to post a picture of this plaque, but I only have a scanner, and am unable to make it smalll enough to fit on the site. However, if you require I can email you a picture.

Hope to hear from some soon.

Kind regards,

Gordon. animal