bigjarofwasps

I must say, I`ve made a monster here!!

I was amazed to here that a medic can qualify for a CAB & CMB. But it does make perfect sense I suppose, as I know of loads of medics that were out of the ground, got into scuffle, but didn`t treat anyone. Thus I suppose they would qualify for a CAB. What would happen if they ended up earning both somehow could they wear them both or would they have to choose, I suppose if they somehow won two of one and one of the other they`d wear the one with the star, but what of the other. I asume that would just be on there records or something?

But what do you have to do to qualify for a CAB as a medic? Would the example where one pistol round had been firded at you, by an angry Iraqi as you drove passed on top cover count, or would it have to be a sustained burst of AK, or the like? I assume you have to have infact returned fire?

What about attending a post IED incident, where you treated wounded, but all the `shooting & loud bangs` had finished...But a further return to shooting could in theory happen again at anytime?....CMB, CAB or nothing.

Either way, I must say that this CAB seems to be a good idea, and puts pay to all the other elements of the military that aren`t infantry, but involved in a combat none the less!

a monster indeed....

Have a look at this...

<a href="http://www.army.mil/symbols/combatbadges/Action.html" target="_blank">http://www.army.mil/symbols/combatbadges/Action.html</a>

It appears you can be awarded all three, but it doesn`t state whether you could wear all three at once?

It also goes on to state..

c. Soldier must be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement.

....but doesn`t stipulate what actively engaged might mean...anyone got any ideas?

Oh now that makes more sense...and by that I mean the whole SS DSC thing, yeh I`ll have that. The way it was worded in the book gave the impression that he got two gongs and a promotion all for the same act.

CMB, now I think I`ve got my head round this....so basically if you did a tour of Iraq & a tour of Afgan, because they both come under the war on terror you only get one award. If there was say a further chapter...Iran?? then you`d get a star? Or would that still count as the war on terror. Where as WWII & Korea where clearly two seperate war thus two awards....you lost me a bit with the Vietnam thing, I`m afraid.

Now in the book My War, he author states that the CMB was issued purely for being a medic in a combat zone is this correct? By that I mean is it issued on mass to every medic whose served in Iraq/Afgan, or do you have to have been exposed to a two way range, is there a limit to how much fire there was or weapon type?...example a sing shot from a pistol whilst on patrol, a few mortars in the camp, an IED? Also what happens if your a medic with an infantry squad that gets into a fire fight but now one is injuried, whats happens then?

Johnny Come Lately

by Steve Earle

I'm an American, boys, and I've come a long way

I was born and bred in the USA

So listen up close, I've get something to say

Boys, I'm buying this round

Well it took a Iittke while but we're in this fight

And we ain't going home 'til we've done what's right

We're gonna drink Camden Town dry tonight

If I have to spend my last pound

When I first got to London it was pourin' down rain

Met a Iittle girl in the field canteen

Painted her name on the nose of my plane

Six more missions I'm gene

Well I asked if I could stay and she said that I might

Then the warden came around yelling "turn out the lights"

Death rainin' out of the London night

We made love 'til dawn

But when Johnny Come Lately comes marching home

With a chest full of medals and a G.l. loan

They'll be waitin' at the station down in San Antone

When Johnny comes marching home

MY P-47 is a pretty good ship

And she took a round coming cross the Channel last trip

I was thinking 'bout my baby and letting her rip

Always got me through so far

Well they can ship me all over this great big world

But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl

I'm taking her home whh me one day, sir

Soon as we win this war

Now my granddaddy sang me this song

Told me about Londen when the Blitz was on

How he married Grandma and brought her back home

A hero throughout his land

Now I'm standing on a runway in San Diego

A couple Purple Hearts and I move a little slow

There's nobody here, maybe nobody knows

About a place called Vietnam

During Vietnam the First Marine Division had the "three wounds and home" policy...when I was in the Marines I remember talking to my CO about it (he was wounded three times, sent home, went back and was wounded again)...He was an infantry platoon/company commander. Also, I have a friend who was awarded the Purple Heart in Iraq when a piece of equipment rolled onto him and broke his foot and ankle during a fire fight...the award was very contentious in his unit. He was MEDEVACed and given the PH in the hospital, but his CO later had it revoked. When he retired, the Navy gave it back to him....

Curious about the Iraq award, how can it be issued revoked and then re issued? I also assume that a `combat injury`, has to be something that the enemy have fired at you? American awards seem to be so fickle with no rule of thumb... I`m currently reading a book (Right Face)where by the author claims to have been awarded the Silver Star promoted to 1st Lt and put in for the DSC all for them same action. Another book I recently read (The Cage) the author claimed to have won the Silver Star & Bronze Star in a week!!!! In the UK you`d be lucky to get one medal at the end of your tour! Goin slightly off topic again, but what the score with CIB & CMB I`ve seen a lot recently with 1 & 2 stars on them, I understand the criteria for there award (I think), but how does the stars work..... I mean do you get one per tour in a combat zone, or like the above medals example could you be awarded a CIB badge on day then a week later get a star and so on? We also only get one campaign medal per tour, in the US you seem to get 2+...example Iraq & war on terror medal. Don`t get me wrong I think its great I wish we could come out of basic training with 2 medals, do a tour and come home with 5!! Thats really `Johnny come lately` stuff!!!

Two UK military personnel have been killed and two seriously injured in an RAF Puma helicopter crash near Baghdad in Iraq, defence officials have said.

The deaths on Tuesday take the total number of UK troops killed in operations in Iraq since the 2003 invasion to 173.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7105224.stm

So just who was the most decorated American soldier? You`d think the answer would be easy.....

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_was_the_most...merican_history

But it seems not!

Then you could argue.... does say the acts required to win 2 DSC & 10 SS say out rank a MH?

& whilst I on about it, who was the most decorated British soldier? Could you say one of the double VC winners or the SAS guy who won 4 DSOs, or is there someone else......?

Audie Murphy's Military Award List

Military Service Number 01 692 509

Medal of Honor

Distinguished Service Cross

Silver Star With First Oak Leaf Cluster

Legion of Merit

Bronze Star With "V" Device and First Oak Leaf Cluster

Purple Heart With Second Oak Leaf Cluster

U.S. Army Outstanding Civilian Service Medal

Good Conduct Medal

Distinguished Unit Emblem With First Oak Leaf Cluster

American Campaign Medal

European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal

With One Silver Star, Four Bronze Service

Stars (representing nine campaigns) and

one Bronze Arrowhead (representing

assault landing at Sicily and Southern France)

World War II Victory Medal

Army of Occupation With German Clasp

Armed Forces Reserve Medal

Combat Infantryman Badge

Marksman Badge with Rifle Bar

Expert Badge with Bayonet Bar

French Fourragere In Colors of the Croix de Guerre

French Legion of Honor, Grade of Chevalier

French Croix de Guerre With Silver Star

French Croix de Guerre with Palm

Medal of Liberated France

Belgian Croix de Guerre 1940 Palm

Billy Walkabout, decorated American Indian veteran, dies at 57

Walkabout received the Distinguished Service Cross, Purple Heart, five Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars. He was believed to be the most decorated Native American soldier of the Vietnam War, according to U.S. Department of Defense reports.

Others may address this better than I, but he is surely the most self-advertised US soldier ever. A lot of self-serving fact-stretching here.

Cheers Ed, I`ll give the book a bash.....

Much mythology -- for which there are some less delicate terms -- surrounds Hackworth.

Ed, tell tell.......

Surely he must be the most decorated American soldier that ever served? I was going to ask for his book for Christmas, but would very much like to hear your views, before I do.

Check out this...

http://www.hackworth.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hackworth

Found this thought it might be of interest.....

Slighty off topic, but its interesting none the less.....

Author explodes myth of the gunmetal VC

By Catriona Davies

The belief that every Victoria Cross, Britain's highest military honour, is made from cannon captured during the Crimean War is nothing more than a myth, says a book marking the 150th anniversary of the medal.

John Glanfield: ?There was an accepted legend and

no one had researched whether it was true?

John Glanfield, a historian and author of Bravest of the Brave, to be published next month, claims to have exposed the truth about the metal used to make the awards.

It has long been believed that all 1,351 Victoria Crosses awarded have been made of bronze taken from two Russian cannon captured at the siege of Sebastopol and kept in the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich.

The Victoria Cross was instituted on Jan 29, 1856, as the supreme gallantry award and the first to recognise servicemen's brave acts regardless of rank.

The priceless lump of metal, of which there remains enough for a further 85 crosses, is kept in a vault at the Royal Logistic Corps in Donnington, Shropshire. It can be removed only under guard.

By studying historical documents and scientific analysis, Glanfield claims that the Woolwich cannon were not used until 1914, 58 years after the first Victoria Crosses had been produced.

He also says that the precious ingot disappeared during the Second World War, so a different metal was used for five crosses awarded between 1942 and 1945.

"I was astonished," he said. "There was an accepted legend and no one had researched whether it was true. When something has been the belief for 150 years it becomes accepted as the truth."

In the book, he says: "No aspect of the history of the Victoria Cross has been so hotly debated or disputed as the origin of the metal from which it is made.

"The truth has become fogged by time, myth and misinformation. Part of the myth is that every cross has been cast from the two [Woolwich] cannon."

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The cannon in Woolwich are Chinese-made, although they have often previously been cited as Russian, and Glanfield says that their origin is an "impenetrable mystery".

He said there was no evidence that they had been captured at Sebastopol, the last big battle of the Crimean War, as was often stated. "The Chinese pieces were not the only, or even the first, to contribute VC metal," he said. "An earlier gun provided bronze from the start.

"When the metal ran out in December 1914, the Chinese cannon took over. The football-size cascabels [knobs] were sawn off at the neck and melted down for VC production, starting not in 1856 but nearly 60 years and some 560 crosses later."

Glanfield cites unpublished X-ray analysis of crosses, carried out at the Royal Armouries and the Australian War Memorial in Canberra, showing that those awarded before 1914 were of a different metal from those afterwards. It is only those since 1914 that match the Woolwich cannon.

Furthermore, an estimated 224lb of metal has been taken from the Woolwich cannon. Glanfield said that to make 12 crosses with a combined weight of 10oz or 11oz required 47oz of gunmetal because of the wastage in the process. Therefore the 224lb would have been enough to make the 810 crosses issued since 1914, but not those previously.

Of the disappearance of the ingot in 1942, he said: "The wartime transfer of the VC block from Woolwich Arsenal with tens of thousands of dispersed depots may have rendered it impossible to trace." He said the War Office covered up the crisis at the time.

Glanfield, who began writing after he retired as a director of the Earl's Court and Olympia exhibition centres, almost turned down the opportunity to write the book because he thought there was nothing new to learn about the Victoria Cross.

However, he changed his mind because he had been inspired by VC holders he had met in his earlier career.

He said: "I found all of them quiet, self-effacing and considered their acts of gallantry to be just a job. These are supermen and I relished the prospect of writing about them. Researching the book was a humbling and awesome experience."

Glanfield decided to research the origins of the crosses themselves, a project that took eight months, because previous histories had concentrated on the recipients and their deeds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...12/28/nvc28.xml

Cheers Guys, thats of great help!!

Any idea what the chances of researching such an award would be?

The relative I`m trying to research was 30003053 SSgt Eugeniufz Kozik, his medals & photo would suggest that he won it twice! Not sure what campaigns he fought in in total, but he was certainly at Monte Casino, and was in an Armoured unit of some kind. I`ll try and scan his picture, and see if I can post it. Leave it with me.

His Cross is the 1920 type.

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me what the Polish Cross of Valor is equal to in British Awards?

Also is it possible to obtain the citation for these awards, for the WW2 period?

Many thanks in advance,

Gordon.

Can anyone shine any light of this statement for me?

"While the U.S. Army does routinely review retroactive individual award

recommendations for members of the Armed Forces of the United States, as required by U.S. Federal law and Army policy.My office is still under the impression the British Government does not allow its Soldiers or veterans to receive retroactive foreign awards."

These days, it seems the medal is used pretty frequently as an award for allies and friends, where the standard seems to be rather higher than the standards employed for US troops.

http://candle_in_the_dark.blogspot.com/200...01_archive.html

"Better to Deserve Them AND Have Them or Your God Damn Right It's Sour Grapes!

I think the worst part of the Army Awards System is the fact that anyone can put anyone in for an award. In Iraq we all received a "blanket" commendation with the same citation. I was put in for 2 ARCOMs one with "V" and both were kicked back. Most of us in Iraq were turned down for at least one real decoration for actions in combat. The sad part is that this week we had a battalion awards ceremony and about 120 awards were given out. About one third were ARCOMs and for all but about 10 achievement medals were given out.

The point of this bitter rant is that none of these guys did anything in a play-play exercise that we didn't do FOR REAL in combat.

Yes, I am pissed that I wasn't put in for an award, but my squad leader and I come from an older Army where you weren't given an award for doing your job.

I know guys who literally saved a life but weren't put in for an award because it was said that's the medic's job. Yet an E-2 11B gets an AAM for clearing a room well in a play-play exercise.

I know what you're all saying, but when you really look at it if we didn't get decorated in no ###### combat then these kids shouldn't get an award for showing up to the game just because this is an unpopular war and we want to inspire them to stay in.

By the way, it's NOT better to deserve them and not get them."

Three Danish officers received Army Commendation Medal

On 28 February 2005 kaptajn Philip Borreschmidt, kaptajn Jesper K. Pedersen og kaptajn Thorsten C. Lossin participated in a convoy to Baghdad with an American officer from the Illinois Army National Guard. An IED (Improvised Explosive Devise) exploded in front of the first vehicle in the column, which resulted in the vehicle rolling over. Two American officers from MND CS (Multinational Division Central Southern Iraq) were seriously wounded in the accident.

On 26 June 2005 the three Danish captains received the American Army Commendation Medal for their professionalism in securing the accident site and participation in evacuating the wounded American officers. Shown receiving the medal are: Kaptajn Philip Borreschmidt, kaptajn Jesper K. Pedersen og kaptajn Thorsten C. Lossin.

http://forsvaret.dk/HOK/Nyt+og+Press...endation+Medal

If you look at the production runs on all of the state quarters. Collect them for pleasure but forget about the ones you find in circulation doubling in value anytime soon unless they have some-sort of mint-produced defect. SPEND THEM otherwise.

The Indiana quarter was a joke. A race-car? You'd think they would have had something about "Indians" on the "Indiana" state quarter...

There is a difference between the designs for the "walking" liberty quarter and half-dollar. Walking liberty quarters are more commonly referred to as "standing liberty" quarters.

Yeh, I agree some of the designs are a bit lame, lucky these are in a minority, and good designs certainly make up for the others short fallings, in my opinion.

The odd thing with these is that coins with "chop" marks are degraded because of such markings. It's really hard to find some dates in this series of coins.

That is interesting, you`d think that the chop marks would add to the value? Like with Maria Dollars...

I actually spoke to a member of my local MP company who was sporting his CAB yesterday. He got his for repeated exposure to mortar attacks (@ 20 rounds total) over a one day (!) period in 2004. That was his total exposure to combat in his year's tour in Iraq.

It seems to be the standard award for being in any kind of sustained combat that results in casualties in Iraq. Read Colby Buzzells' hilarious account of his ARCOM award ("But Sergeant, it says that I served without hesitation or complaint...."), (Sergeant: "Shut up Buzzel and take the damn medal".)

Cheers Ulsterman, I`d forgotten about that one...quality!!!!

Lance Corporal Sarah Holmes dies from injuries sustained in a road traffic accident in Qatar

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceN...dentInQatar.htm

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me what the ARCOM is issued for?

Can anyone give me any examples of events that lead to ARCOM was awarded?

Is it highly thought of, within the military? One worth having...???

Gordon.

My understanding of the CMB is that only those with the designated MOS medic receive it-for action under fire. It is for designated medics only who have been in combat.

see here:

<a href="http://www.amervets.com/replacement/cmb.htm#isr" target="_blank">http://www.amervets.com/replacement/cmb.htm#isr</a>

Yeh, this makes sense.

But it still doesn`t define what `under fire` means.. ???

To my understanding the Combat Medic Badge is awarded only when treating wounded while under fire. IE - while the bullets are flying. The person also has to be a medic - not an infantryman who has been trained as a medic (guy on the spot who can render first aid when his buddy goes down). As far as I know medics are still considered non-combattants (?) but as the nature fo warfare has changed, so has the designation of 'medic'. It makes more sense to have a guy fully armed who can render aid while firing back. I only say this as my brother in law who is on his third tour in Iraq has gone to Air Assualt School, Sniper School and Medic School. But he only has the CIB (among numerious other awards)

Cheers H, thats very interesting, and has answer my question perfectly. Thank you.